New GCSE levels - what should a top student be aiming for?

Surely if DC are in a year group of 100, and see that only 3 students get 9s in Maths for instance, they will be able to handle getting an 8. People intuitively understand that achievement in this context is relative.

I really agree with you sendsummer that the substantive difference between an 8 and a 9 may not be much. And I agree that broad, wide thinking is better than perfectionism which could be more of a hinderance than a help at university level.

If the top grades are about achieving perfection rather than testing extended knowledge or problem solving skills or flair then I am not persuaded that GCSE 9s will actually have more value than 8s with regards academic potential for HE.
I would rather have a student wider read etc than spend ages eliminating errors on past papers.

Its perhaps better for high achieving perfectionists to experience 'failure' of grade 8 and relax a bit

"Not the fault of any system that has grades that she takes it so ridiculously seriously."

I agree. But I was just commenting that there will be issues for some kids come results day- high achievers have been conditioned to expect a string of top grades and they won't get them any more. I think this needs to be managed very carefully.

I have one of those high achieving kids... she's ok with 7s but she's upset about not getting A or A*. Anyway, I see all that as HER problem. She needs to learn to be more pragmatic. This is her character defect at work. Not the fault of any system that has grades that she takes it so ridiculously seriously.

I actually think this is going to be awful for some high achieving children- at the school my dd went to a lot of the girls got incredibly upset about any mark less than an A/A*- and if only 3% are going to get 9s then by definition there are going to be a lot of ridiculously distraught high fliers.

Interestingly, at ds's school (he's in year 10 so will only be doing English and Maths under the new scheme) they are talking a lot about 6/7 being excellent scores. But it's very hard to manage expectations. Psychologically it will be very difficult for a lot of children to be happy when they know there are 2 or 3 higher grades they could potentially have got. It needs a complete change of mindset- and that takes time.

In an ideal world that's right bobo and I'm glad it's (mostly) played that way for my DC.

But it's tough for teachers to be so pragmatic when a school's rating and league table place rely pretty squarely on grades. Ditto teachers' pay.

Then there are the parents' expectations too.

I can see why many schools get themselves totally wrapped up in exams and grades, as exhausting as that is for teachers and pupils alike.

It really isn't worth getting anxious about. Pupils shouldn't be "aiming for grades" but rather mastering the syllabus and required exam technique. Good grades in exams are not an end in themselves but rather a by product of effective assimilation of knowledge and skills.

A 7 will be an A equivalent and a 4 will be a C equivalent so that's what they will probably accept for the first year or so at least because otherwise numbers will plummet.

We have no idea what dd is predicted.

Under the old system she would have been an A/A* candidate for her stronger subjects & a B candidate for the weaker ones.

Now the teachers say she should get between 7-9 in them all. The sixth form she may apply to ask for B grades in any subjects they are doing at A level with st least 5 Bs & 3 Cs. Except we don't know whether a 7 or 6 will be the B equivalent & whether 5 or 4 will be the C

In 1988 I was the first cohort to do the old-style GCSE (ie pre As). I got 4 As 3 Bs and 1 C (and many years later an A) and I was offered a place at Cambridge. So I suspect there will be no problem with getting decent uni offers on the basis of 6s 7s and 8s (and maybe the odd 9).

how universities will select now if they've ten 9 grades from a pupil at public school vs ten 8s from a pupil at comp

the same as Unis do now (argh).
The university will have a GCSE entry requirement. Very unlikely any course will ever require minimum of 10x8 at GCSE or 9x9. They just won't. There aren't enough interested students who tick either box. The threshold tariff will be much lower even for competitive courses, eg 60 points for best 8 GCSE or summat like that.

Once the student is over that threshold, then what they got at GCSE won't be looked at again. The 10x8 & the 9x9 students will be on equal footing for the next stage of selection. When work experience, personal statement, interview scores, UKCAT etc. & most of all A-levels matter.

I had to get EE too! Glad I took that option as I met DH there on our first day (obviously with more than EE though).

I don't think the difference between 8 and 9 will be in what is taught but thenumber of careless mistakes in a subject like maths or science

I hope the link works. The animation is quite useful for comparing grades.
www.aqa.org.uk/about-us/what-we-do/policy/gcse-and-a-level-changes/9-1

We live in an area with a few ss grammars. Dd passed the 11+ and qualified for grammar but didn't want to go. She preferred the non selective school she will be starting at in September.
One of the brightest dc I have met (not mine) goes to the same school, is in yr11 and is likely to get straight A*.

It is ludicrous to say these dc are not capable of top grades.

I still don't fully understand the private v state and number of As question but if I was a university admissions person I would take the state school person simply for the reason you seem to be suggesting - the private school grades have been acheived by virtue of the parents income, the state school ones from hard work and intelligence

Have I understood you correctly?

But I don't know how universities will select now if they've ten 9 grades from a pupil at public school vs ten 8s from a pupil at comp - and a good comp at that. And with no ASs as a guide either - it will be difficult

They'll do the same as now and 20 years ago - make offers based on predicted A level grades. Universities aren't really interested in GCSEs beyond passes in English and Maths and maybe a sift on best 8, but that's unusual.

I may be being naive but don't you aim to do the best you can? Or do you mean that a student aims for a certain grade and doesn't do any extra to try and get a higher one?

Everyone is in the same boat, I'd tell my DCs to do their best. I know the system is new but it's the same for all the applicants and as stickerocks says above, the universites will be able to cope.

I think the system landfill describes is spot on. I know it was 30 years ago, but 3As, 7Bs and 3Cs at O level gave me the choice of 5 top universities. It worked, as you could differentiate.

Sorry current year 12s

Many universities have not yet finalised their approach to the next cycle of admissions ( current year 11s with old grade GCSEs and a mish mash if AS).

Never mind the cycle with new grade GCSEs.

Academic decision making on such things is positively glacial.

The exam boards have stated that the same percentage will get grades 8 and 9 as now get A*, which varies from one subject to another. It's true that only a very small percentage will achieve a grade 9. To be honest, I'm not convinced that pupils need to so finely graded at the age of 16. In fact, I'm not entirely convinced that GCSEs are needed at all in their current form, now that the school leaving age has effectively been raised to 18. My guess would be that the more selective universities will be looking for grades 7 and 8 across a range of subjects with a couple of grade 9s in the subject(s) prospective students want to study.

I work at post-grad level and find that a huge proportion of the students I work with have straight A/A*s for their GCSEs and similar grades for their A levels. A lot of them, sadly, come down with a bump when they realise that their "exceptional" grades are shared by another 39 students in the same room, some of whom are far brighter than them and able to cope with professional exams (without coursework or controlled assessments) more effectively.

There must be flaws in a system which awards up to 26% of the candidates an A/A, as some GCSE papers did in 2015. The new grading system should differentiate between the top students much more effectively, with the scope to re-jig the bandings and add more levels as the system matures without having to simply pile more & more students into the A grade each year.

I also reject the idea that a grade 9 will be the exclusive preserve of private and selective state schools. Comprehensive pupils also have the ability to cope with exams. My DD 's school is already talking about the extra classes they intend to run after school for the brightest kids to give them the opportunity to cover the material being pushed down from higher papers giving access to a grade 9.

If it becomes obvious that grade 8s & 9s are only being awarded to those receiving a selective education, there will be some parts of the country without a single grade 9 student. I don't believe that the system will be that flawed or that employers and universities will not find a way of recognising the privilege that a minority have been given. I will certainly be looking at where candidates received their school education as well as the grades they achieved.