White British pupils underperforming because of parents

There was always a strong history of self education. Its the reason for the WEA for example. But of course circumstances meant it was not seen as a route out of poverty/to promotion etc. That was never going to happen. The upper classes never wanted the poor educated at all. It still suits imo for the poor to remain under educated. My mum for example had to leave school at 15 with no quals. She was needed to work. My great grandmother couldnt go to grammar school. She was needed to work. But all my family were v self educated and self taught.

As Asian parents we are branded with "pushy" even we are not. My daughter loves violin/piano( and swimming and painting) then I was told I am a Tiger mother. Back in my home country, a pushy parent get rewarded as they work hard. The good thing I find in uk is, the middle hard working class parents normally care about their children all rounded and push their children hard while in Asian countries the rich/super rich dont find motivation to bother to try as they have their parents pay for anything( failed exams, no problem, failed to get to good school, go oversea, getting a job, why? you will inherit the whole business anyway)

Our primary and secondary has a very high attendance at parents evening. The parents care. But I've still noticed a better attitude in some of the children from Indian and ethnic families. This report is no surprise to me.

bomb the WC have been decimated.

However, education was never highly prized in WC culture. I grew up on a 1970s/80s northern council estate and was very much an outlier in my academic ambitions.

Everyone around couldn't wait to leave school whatever their ability.

wash just ignore idiots like that.

Most private school parents would not criticise you for doing whatever you felt necessary ( within reason obvs ).

As a nation we have destroyed white working class culture. These were v strong communities. There was a history of self education and union activity to better working and living conditions. That has been destroyed, deliberately, and the poor have been demonised - they are poor because they deserve it. This is part of the same way of thinking.

wash I agree with a lot of what you say, except that private school parents sit back and let the school do the work.

Some do but I bet most don't. I pay for school and have never been less than involved. The other parents that I know are similar ( wherever we're from).

Sometimes it's a PITA, sometimes it's boring, but the culture exists that you do what you have to do for your DC's education and future.

the article mentions "high performing countries" and includes Canada.
the attitude here is much more relaxed.
the concept of my grandchildren starting school at 4 going long hours and constant testing is almost frightening.

Incidentally, the cultural attitude I mentioned above has resulted in a nation like Korea, with extremely high PISA scores, to also have less correlation between socio-economic class and academic achievement than most Western countries.

The "Chinese thing" is simply a cultural attitude which exists in Confucian cultures that hard work and discipline are the keys to success and excelling in school is the key to a better future. Chinese/East Asian cultures do not put much store in being naturally gifted or good at things - they believe that talent is not necessary, and that success will come with enough work. Working hard and succeeding is not done simply for the individual, but for the family unit.

Immigrant East Asians also have another driver - they feel that academic achievement will lead to good stable jobs (medicine/law/engineering) which will protect them from racism. This is a point my mum made to me.

I am surprised that very few people mention that the dc themselves need to take responsibility for their education. I grew up in a very wc irish household. My mum and dad worked extremely hard and really were not interested in education (tbh I thought they were both too tired) If I needed something they would buy it but never pushed me academically or were that concerned if I had done my homework or not. Most of my friends parents were the same. Many of us went on to further education and have done well for ourselves because we took the responsibility ourselves for our education. Other dc in my class could barely read by the time they left primary school. They, their parents and the school didn't care. I am now a mum and I do push my dd hard. I believe my response is a reaction to my parents indifference, the fact that living in the real world and I understand that in order to have a good job you need a good education and that I am a first generation immigrant (albeit English speaking) with aspirations that are much higher than my parents had.

I am not Chinese, but came from the country that University degree is normal.
My parents were both working parents, but they made sure that I revised everyday from start of school. I had homework everyday, and they made sure I done it. By the time I was about 10, I didn't need any push from my parents. I just done it anyway, because I realised it helped me progress and get better results at school.
I have been doing the same with my ds. I make sure he reads everyday, and do some revision .(or anything which interests him.) I try to find the resources which reinforce the learning at school, and provide it for him. I'm hoping he will be the same as me, realise that if he works hard, he can get better understanding at school.
With homework from school, my ds still needs bit of reminding, but he knows he has to do it, because I always told him he had to do it like it or not, there was no option. I think people saying primary children shouldn't have home work is a very British thing. Maybe not KS1, but KS2 is quite capable IMO.

80% of my daughter class mates are white English, its a state primary school in sw London. We are Asian(non English speaking country) and work full time in the city and both have higher education(uk), we are both ambitious and aim high for my children. However most of my daughter classmates parents are equally caring and "pushing" their children, even a little more than us. I'd say it depends on the area where we live. A middle class family with a bonding family culture then the children are normally very rounded and achieve a university degree is normal(everyone although is aiming more)

No matter the denials, we are still an incredibly class-ridden country. Its almost caste like - so those from abroad are immune to its effects.

"illiterate adult Chinese in the 1930s and 1940s were quite happy to go to night school to learn to read and write: if the chance was there, they took it. "

The same was true in the UK though, think of the Working Men's Educational Association - night school was always the classic way to improve yourself and your prospects.

Chinese thing is nothing to do with one child policy! That is a mainland China only thing, for a couple of generations or so.
It is a combination of factors. Mainly work ethic.

I think it's really complex, and a mix of factors.

Firstly, first generation immigrants tend to be the people with 'get up and go' by definition, so they're likely to have high aspirations for their children.
Secondly, some cultures - most notably China and India - put a very high value on education.

But there is, I'm sure, a 'London effect' from the huge amount of funding and effort that has gone into the Capital's schools. If you look at GCSE results by ethnicity over time, there has been a very definite change. This report shows GCSE results by ethnic group from 2006/7, and then 2010/11.

In 2007, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Black Carribean and Black African origin children all got worse GCSE results than White British origin children. By 2011, all groups had improved, but the non-White British had improved by considerably more. Evidently that pattern has continued, and now they've pulled ahead. IMO it's very likely in part if not entirely because London schools have improved massively, and non-White pupils are concentrated in the capital.

Not necessarily fakename. I teach children who came to the UK from Poland 3 years ago and can still barely speak any English, and then others who did the same and whose English is just as good as their classmates who were born in this country.

My impression is that Chinese families value education and make sure that their DC knuckle down and do their homework: the Chinese that I have known or known of have always been like that. Historically, in China education was a way out of grinding poverty; the Chinese diaspora in Asia has a long tradition of setting up its own schools; illiterate adult Chinese in the 1930s and 1940s were quite happy to go to night school to learn to read and write: if the chance was there, they took it.

The interesting thing is that modern teenagers have twigged who does well and why. As in, 'No, X can't come round, she has to revise, her dad is getting all Asian parent on her again.' X's results thus far have been stellar (and she's a nice kid).

I wonder if (amongst other things) the fact that they speak two (or more) languages also has something to do with it. In that speaking another language might open the brain up in some way?

Definitely. It would be useful to see this broken down further by humanities/languages vs quants.

Interesting anecdote; when my son sat for Westminster, the applicant pool was dominated by not extremely well-off ethnic minorities. All white applicants were from obviously middle-(&upwards)class families.

This kind of chutzpa (attempting to penetrate a venerable upper-class English institution as an immigrant cab driver, for example) translates into academic success.

Well fair enough, I AM confused. This is direct to the CF report?

Pg 11 is a graph with PISA data on it (for instance).
Presumably many graphs in the report aren't related to PISA, though.
Yet otherwise the report talks about "We also intend to benchmark reliably our performance in England against the rest of the UK and the world." and "CentreForum’s proposed world-class benchmark requires 75 per cent of secondary pupils to score 50 points or higher (the equivalent of a ‘good pass‘ in all eight subjects)2 across Attainment 8 by 2030." (so they DO want to compare the GCSE results to some world-reference standard).

Seems they artificially designated some threshold, seemingly because of world comparisons, and it's on the basis of those world comparisons that they are moaning (sometimes).

I realise this thread is trying to dive into data in other ways, and some of the charts have nothing to do with their proposed standard Does the CF report ever divide the GCSE results into quintiles, maybe, and consider possible inequalities that way? Without reference to their 'world benchmark'?

I have no opinions or expertise on why some kids underachieve, beyond the obvious & usual social inequities and luck of the draw factors.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics...

Jumping in after reading only the first page.

I wonder if (amongst other things) the fact that they speak two (or more) languages also has something to do with it. In that speaking another language might open the brain up in some way?