White British pupils underperforming because of parents

Inflated grades at KS2 impacting on levels progress has an impact where I teach. I can look at a set of ahead 7 kids after their first assignment and by comparing them to their KS2 results can tell which school they came from by the gap between grades ... Predominantly white kids.

I am sure MN is the opposite of representative of the population.

I know parents whose children had great potential and they were lucky enough to live in an area with an outstanding school that gets great results. But the mothers (not all single) deliberately chose failing schools precisely because they didn't want to be bothered with parents nights, homework, teachers hassling them, bothering about results etc.

I feel so sad now that their children's life's ambitions are taking a good selfie with a trout pout, boosting about how they know nu'ting about maths and seeing who can get away with the most sexualised school uniform, all live on the world wide web.

And who pays for it?

Jeremy

I realise this, but there are just as many like me as the ones you describe.
I know parents from all walks of life who don't really give a flying fig about education and those that do.
I know you weren't judging but feel I must add, I gave up work before tax credits/ FC was available.
It was wonderful to see the parents I described above, it really was like a light going on for them. They gained confidence and not only saw the benefit of education but were able to pass this onto their children. This was quite some time ago, about 25 years. It came from the head and she was having no messing, she shamed them into it told them they were failing their dc. Not sure if it would be allowed now.

My ds's school hold classes for parents to teach them how to help children at home. Not many parents turn up, and most of the ones who turn up has children who are above average. Parents of children who really need their help never seems to bother.(I may be wrong, they may not be able to, due to work, etc.) Always less than 1/4 of parents turn up. I felt really sorry for the teachers who organised it. I agree, they have to change the attitude of parents first, if they want to bring the level of attainment of children.

Not sure about piano aspect. My gps had one in living room of flat plus table and sofa. Dad was self taught. Other gps had one too, out of tune. We don't have one as I agree they take up space but dsis has parents one as she plays too.

NewLife4Me - you gave up work once you got tax credits, you helped your family and educated your children. Unfortunately not everyone did that, they took the money and used it to entrench their position and so started the culture where educating your children was no longer a parents job, ... its became the states responsibility.

DS 16 was not a high achiever aged 5 due to a medical condition which meant he missed out a lot on his foundation years- all nursery, most of reception and half of year one. With our help and some very good teachers he is now on track to getting 5 possibly 6 GCSE's at C/B. It has taken a lot of effort all round to get to this stage. Our families have been supportive too. I can't imagine how people can just give up on their DC's education and not support them as much as they can. It's really sad.

I don't agree about the welfare comments tbh, nor tax credits.
We have had tax credits since it came in and I gave up work to be available for my children, to educate them and provide what they needed.
I have supported for over 20 years now, bought books, paid for music lessons, sports accessories and clubs, concert tickets and transport.
Travelled round the country accompanying my dd, buying music and instruments, the list is endless.
I have done this because I see it as my role and even when we were really broke when first setting out the children had books.
I'd go to church sales, car boots etc and we had shelves full of books, including all the classics.
You don't need lots of money, but you do need to prioritise.
The way forward has to be education for parents.
I saw the most deprived children from a sink estate improve Literacy and numeracy to great results, the school got parents in and taught them, then they could support their children and began to see the importance of education.
But services like this were soon cut.

And you are even more likely to turn your nose up at a minimum wage job if you did hit targets...

What a load of bollocks. Not all "working class people" are the same and not all of those who don't "hit targets" at 16 go on to live on benefits. It's not as if you need to hit targets to obtain a minimum wage job.

Unforeseen consequence of a generous welfare state.

However the welfare state is shrinking, the population is going to be forced to change.

We aren't a rich country, we have little or no industry, or minerals, just banking education etc that we sell.

Its not a big mystery, white working class parents born in the UK just dont value education, so neither do their children. This generation grew up on Gordons tax credits and it became quite a cushy lifestyle not to work, you dont need any education to do that. The safety net of the state means there is no incentive to learn. One of the reasons we need so many immigrants to come into this country is to do the minimum wage jobs that white working class people now look down on because its more lucrative to be on benefits.

In Italy (for example) you get a list of textbooks at the beginning of the school your and - you go and buy them for the DC... ( Can also get second hand). So parents buy them.
Imagine the squealing if that happened here

"If you were to ask the same parents to shell out for books or put in extra if their child was struggling in maths they'd laugh."
I'm not sure that's necessarily true (or maybe it's different in Wales?). Parents might not have a shelf of books at home, but if eg a letter goes home from the head teacher suggesting doing X or Y, I think it really gets treated as the word of God by a lot of parents I know, and generally those who've had fewer educational opportunities themselves.

Yes, ok, you're right. But so much of it is a culture if "I can't" and " it doesn't matter". It seems to me that a lot of people just don't try. But I was over-egging it a bit.

The Chinese (not well off, first gen parents) girls at my daughters' super selective London grammar work astonishingly hard. Academically they excel, two instruments grade 8 by year 7, maths GCSE by year 8. On top of homework, they are members of the National Youth Orchestra, the netball team, head of the debate clubs, attend tennis camps etc.

Just thinking about it exhausts me, and worries me that we are not doing enough for our mixed heritage daughters. But they would genuinely be exhausted by such a timetable. My daughters work very hard with no pressure from us, and get very good grades, and do a respectable number of extra curricular activities, but the Chinese girls are in a different league completely. And I am not generalising at all, they are all amazing. I am sure they will all get into Oxbridge - mine don't even want to go there!

Anyone can have a piano at home if they want to - they are often given away for free (as I'm sure you know).

What a "let them eat cake" kind of statement!!!

As said above, many house are too small, they cost a lot to maintain/tune, and of course, it costs a fortune to transport it. We had one to give away and the buyer was quoted upwards of £100 from local removal companies to shift it a few miles. Then the costs of tuition isn't cheap either.

sorry, don't know what happened there

GeorgeTheThird Wed 06-Apr-16 08:23:43

"Anyone can have a piano at home if they want to - they are often given away for free (as I'm sure you know)."

Have you seen the kind of houses people live in in the poorer parts of towns? My friend didn't have a living room large enough to fit a table in for the family sit and eat at (the kitchen was a narrow passageway between the sink and the cooker).They were sad about that as they were anxious for their daughter to acquire good table manners, but there really only was room for the sofa and a chair. The bedrooms were big enough for the beds and nothing else. Where on earth would that piano have gone?

And even if you did have a space, how would you get the piano there if you have no transport? And, as somebody said, pay for tuning?

"Running through speeches is about inclination as well, not about money."

And about paying for the plays. You are not going to get into drama school by just reciting some monologue off the internet. The kind of modern play (and you do need to read it all, not just the monologue) that is required for auditions tends not to be available in libraries, nor on the internet.

Of course, these things, as pointed out by Pipbin, are not what makes the difference in the early days: it is the basics of talking and reading to your child. But when they get into secondary school it does begin to make a difference, especially if the child shows some special talent. One of ds' friends had a talent for acting as did our dd. She had access to a house full of books, including plays, money to join a drama group which gave stage experience, money to join a summer programme and have the chance to work with professionally trained actors, money to go and see plays both locally and (very occasionally) in London, money to buy any play she needed to study, bus money to go to rehearsals. He has a mother who loves him and talks to him; she is certainly not one of those neglectful uninterested parents you hear about; in fact, she spends more time around her son than I do around ds. But all those other things she cannot give him. Because they are about money.

GeorgeTheThird Wed 06-Apr-16 08:23:43

"Anyone can have a piano at home if they want to - they are often given away for free (as I'm sure you know)."

Have you seen the kind of houses people live in in the poorer parts of towns? My friend didn't have a living room large enough to fit a table in for the family sit and eat at (the kitchen was a narrow passageway between the sink and the cooker).They were sad about that as they were anxious for their daughter to acquire good table manners, but there really only was room for the sofa and a chair. The bedrooms were big enough for the beds and nothing else. Where on earth would that piano have gone?

And even if you did have a space, how would you get the piano there if you have no transport? And, as somebody said, pay for tuning?

"Running through speeches is about inclination as well, not about money."

And about paying for the plays. You are not going to get into drama school by just reciting some monologue off the internet. The kind of modern play (and you do need to read it all, not just the monologue) that is required for auditions tends not to be available in libraries, nor on the internet.

Of course, these things, as pointed out by Pipbin, are not what makes the difference in the early days: it is the basics of talking and reading to your child. But when they get into secondary school it does begin to make a difference, especially if the child shows some special talent. One of ds' friends had a talent for acting as did our dd. She had access to a house full of books, including plays, money to join a drama group which gave stage experience, money to join a summer programme and have the chance to work with professionally trained actors, money to go and see plays both locally and (very occasionally) in London, money to buy any play she needed to study, bus money to go to rehearsals. He has a mother who loves him and talks to him; she is certainly not one of those neglectful uninterested parents you hear about; in fact, she spends more time around her son than I do around ds. But all those other things she cannot give him. Because they are about money.

The point I was trying to make was that how can a child discover their musicality if they've never even heard music, or handled an instrument? Your child has been raised by two musicians, I'm sure she found her musicality early, it would have been inculcated from conception.
And yes, it's a good thing that schools like hers exist, and that people without means may attend without finding the fees themselves, absolutely. The children in this study that are failing are not like your child though, are they?
Those falling behind are not all those from lower income families, they are those from low(/er) opportunity families. There are many parents on MN whose children are in receipt of PP funding that point out their child is not suffering due to lack of money, as they still stretch and provide opportunities for their child. But PP funding is there to provide for those children whose parents do not.
That's the point I was trying to make- your family situation provided the best exemplar, and you happened to be on the thread, I hope you don't feel it was a personal attack, it sincerely was not meant as that.

guerre

The point I was trying to make was that the opportunities to enter dd school are fair to all.
I know it's for talented musicians but there are talented kids from all walks of life and it's great that how much you earn has no bearing on gaining entry.
I think it's different for choristers as financial support is much different and paid by The Cathedral, not the same scheme as the school.
The two are completely different, except the choristers attend the day school and have a music lesson.
The standard isn't particularly high to gain entry, there are plenty parents on here whose children are way beyond my dd and far better qualified on paper, far more exams etc.
The school look for potential, dedication, motivation and they eek out the ones who are doing it for parents, not themselves. It's more about fit than exams passed.
seriously, anybody can apply and it isn't so elite as people imagine.

bigkids - sorry, my point was specifically regarding drama/performance. I might be wrong, but I think (?) that there aren't that many dc of 1st generation immigrants going into theatre. Music is a bit different in that obviously a non English first language family are equally able to support if they have the resources to do so, it's more a time, space - and often cost - thing. Having said that certainly when I was at school, admittedly many years back, I think immigrant parents were also much keener on their daughters going into more reliably paying professions!

General academic achievement is rather different - my parents both left school at 16 with minimal qualifications, but they were very well able to help and support me, because the resources to do so are more readily /freely available. (One reason I think libraries are so important.)