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Original poster

GCSE options - should school's individual subject results be taken into account?

32 replies

Oinkyoinky · 08/03/2016 11:43

DC is about to take her GCSE options. Overall her comprehensive gets pretty good results - in 2015 around 70% got 5 GCSEs A-C including English & Maths.

However looking just at A & A grades for individual subjects, some get great grades - ie individual Triple Science subjects around 65%, but some subjects much lower ie Geography 25%, Computer Science 9%, Product Design 8%. DC is very able and we have been told she is in theory able to get all A & A grades (in old money - but hopefully 8s & possibly 9s in the new system).

So should she avoid subjects where there is historically & statistically less percentage of students get a high grade, or should it not matter?

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tiggytape · 09/03/2016 13:51

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lborolass · 09/03/2016 13:30

Just from my personal experience I'm not aware that any of my friends employ tutors for GCSE but, and this may be a big but, I don't live in an area where's there's middle class angst about every element of school. On the whole children go to their catchment school and just get on with it, from what I read on here that may be unusual.

iloveshortbread · 09/03/2016 13:05

sorry - didn't mean to hijack thread, but assume it influences options if tutoring is necessary (and can't be afforded)

iloveshortbread · 09/03/2016 13:02

Can someone tell me how much (private) tutoring goes on in secondary school - private or state. I ask because it is the elephant in the room at dd's state primary but is endemic. Do people tend to employ tutors for 2/3 subjects at GCSE for dcs struggling with those couple of subjects, or do they depend solely on the school? Is it something to budget for, and when does tutoring start?

Original poster
Oinkyoinky · 09/03/2016 11:01

Iborolass - sounds like a good way to approach the subject with the school - thanks!

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Original poster
Oinkyoinky · 09/03/2016 11:00

Thanks for the advice - Bonjorjo - problem is RS is compulsory so I feel that my dc is being set up for a fall as it will be extremely hard to get a good grade in the new GCSE with the 1 lesson per week.

We would rather she did not have to take it and could take History & Geography instead, but the thought of taking RS and either Geography or History is not filling my dc with happiness, despite it probably being the best choice under the circumstances. I agree that Art & Design degrees will need some essay input, so realise the importance of an essay subject - just concerned that this compulsory subject at dc's school is not being managed well.

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bojorojo · 09/03/2016 10:55

If History and Geography have 3 lessons timetabled, it sound like these may be a better bet. The reason History is valuable is that it does start to teach essay construction. For many degrees this is essential. Even doing a degree at LCF requires a dissertation! Essays cannot be avoided for arts subjects.

lborolass · 09/03/2016 10:44

You dont need to challenge the timetable in the first instance, it would be perfectly OK to ask them how they plan to deliver extra conten without increasing the number of lessons and see what they say.

Original poster
Oinkyoinky · 09/03/2016 10:36

Think I may start a new thread on the RS debate!

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Original poster
Oinkyoinky · 09/03/2016 08:13

QuadrupleL & Sue Lawley - Thanks for the info. I'm now rather concerned that the school is continuing to teach RS GCSE in 1 lesson a week. However, I don't really have enough experience and knowledge to challenge their timetabling successfully and am concerned that my DC's year will be an experimental 1st year of the new RS GCSE to check what happens if they try to continue with the 1 lesson a week (& fail!) - although they must know the requirements have changed and that they are taking a risk?!

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QuadrupleL · 08/03/2016 23:32

I am an RS teacher - the current RE GCSE can be (although , lacking depth and being very selective about what you teach) IS doable in 1 hour a week. I did it until 3 years ago, now I have option classes and we can do the subject so much more justice! However anyone / school trying to do that next year will be on to a massive loser. The GCSE has been rewritten so that it is inline with all the other GCSEs and contains for more compulsory knowledge.

I would strongly urge your daughter to do a Hums aside from RS (which is fantastic anyway!). If she is not into essays, Geography is for her. There will be no tiering from next year in geog.

SueLawleyandNicholasWitchell · 08/03/2016 23:00

RS is possible in one hour a week. Skills are picked up through other essay subjects.

Original poster
Oinkyoinky · 08/03/2016 17:42

Bojorojo - thanks for your input. I would agree I would love her to take History - but although more than capable, she is really not keen and not sure pushing her to do it would be a good idea, as she may not put in the work if she doesn't enjoy it.
From all the info from the school so far, RS is definitely the full GCSE but just 1 lesson a week, but I will query this with the school as it does sound crazy!

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catslife · 08/03/2016 17:26

For current GCSEs, Geography is the only subject to have 2 tiers Higher (grades A*-C) and Foundation (grades C to G) so some schools may enter less able pupils for Geography Foundation to increase their EBacc percentage.
I don't think the new (9-1) Geography GCSEs that will be taught from September 2016 will be tiered.

bojorojo · 08/03/2016 17:26

I would really try and get her to take History if you can. It goes very well with languages and is a "heavyweight" subject. RS surely cannot be just 1 lesson a week for the full GCSE? My DDs found RS really easy! A*s without too much effort. For arts subjects, essays are required at university level. Doing an essay subject at GCSE is always worth it! Langages are rarely easy as there is lots of grammar to learn, especially at A level.

Original poster
Oinkyoinky · 08/03/2016 16:00

Thanks irregularegular - I will ask around re quality of teaching in certain subjects. Good to know that a lower grade in an arts subject isn't necessarily detrimental to university admissions.

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irregularegular · 08/03/2016 15:11

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I think it is more important that she overall chooses a good balance of subjects and chooses subjects she is interested in. I would also try to get some feedback on the quality of teaching other than pure grades (i.e., from other pupils and parents and your own impressions if you have met them). Clearly there will be differences in the average ability of pupils taking Triple Science versus those taking Product Design.

Also, as an Oxford admissions tutor, I wouldn't worry about Bs in a couple of non-academic subjects, even the odd C. But I would worry about Bs in Maths, English, Sciences, Languages, Humanities. Even the brightest, most hard-working child can't guarantee an A in Art, Drama, Product Design etc. They are testing for something different. But that doesn't mean that students shouldn't choose them for breadth and interest.

Original poster
Oinkyoinky · 08/03/2016 15:01

Thanks for all the replies.
Tiggytape - appreciated the detailed info,
Just checked and RS is definitely the full GCSE - but they do only allocate 1 lesson a week, which does not seem much time.
I think staffing is an issue in certain subjects - science especially, but it doesn't seem to have affected their results. Not sure re Geography - may try & check.

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Ladymuck · 08/03/2016 14:45

It might be worth checking on staffing. Locally we have had a huge shortage in DT, Geography and Science teachers. Not uncommon to find that whoever is teaching Geography hasn't even taken it to GCSE (seems common to expect History teachers to teach it).

tiggytape · 08/03/2016 14:36

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Grelton · 08/03/2016 14:17

Is the RE a 'half GCSE'? This would explain the lack of timetabling hours and many schools do offer it on this basis.

tiggytape · 08/03/2016 13:50

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Original poster
Oinkyoinky · 08/03/2016 13:26

Thanks Catslife. Great that your dd's school gets 25% A / A* in product design - way higher than my dc's.
Agree that if my dc wants a career in art then 1 Art or design GCSE is enough - then A level and possibly foundation year if she wants to take it further. No need to specialise early - but equally her mix of science and art does make product design tempting.
She will def take Triple Science, Art and French and for the last option I think Spanish is looking like the best option - assuming I can't persuade her to take History or Geography!

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Original poster
Oinkyoinky · 08/03/2016 13:18

Thanks Rhoda Bull - interesting reading. At my dc's school they only have 1 period a week for RS, as opposed to 3 for other options, so from that it does seem odd that a GCSE is possible from such a small amount of classwork, hence the 'soft' option label. I would like her to take History or Geography but I think the non choice with RS has meant that she doesn't want to do another 'essay' subject.
It's tricky for my dc as she is equally able in academic subjects and art, but if some other students are not academically able and have chosen creative subjects you would think they have been 'vetted' to check they are still good at the art subject, so in theory it should not be relevant to their results - ie you don't have to be academic to get a good result in art, but whether academic or not you need to be good at art to get a good result? Does that make sense?!

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catslife · 08/03/2016 13:09

dd is taking RS GCSE this year. It definitely isn't a soft option. You should see all the pages of notes that she has to revise from.
She is also taking Product Design. It wasn't a particularly heavy workload in Y10 but she has had to stay at school till 6pm on some days to finish the coursework this year. Last year 25% of pupils received grade A (no As) in Product Design (with similar percentage of pupils with 5A-C including Maths and English.) GCSEs in either a DT subject or Art would be needed for a career in design. (I wouldn't recommend doing both).
You can take degrees in Computer Science without having studied the subject at GCSE or A level (usually need A level maths and a Science subject), so not essential to have taken the GCSE career wise.
If taking Science subjects at A level could be possible, I would recommend Triple Science as the best option.