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Original poster

School not allowing scribe to student who is entitled?

92 replies

CanvasAwning · 03/03/2016 06:27

I believe that if a student is entitled to a scribe then school are legally bound to offer one. I am thinking that they could use "normal way of working" as a reason for refusal. But if they haven't offered a scribe then how could it be normal way of working and if student has only just qualified for a scribe then it couldn't be normal way of working either.

What can be done if the school is refusing to offer a scribe to student who is entitled to one? Year 11.

OP posts:
ChalkHearts · 05/03/2016 16:03

What do you mean by 'demand'?

Presumably you've already asked clearly. Is that demanding?

You can't sue a school. So what do you mean by demand?

TheFallenMadonna · 05/03/2016 15:55

What reason do they give?

Original poster
CanvasAwning · 05/03/2016 15:54

Basically.... he qualified for scribe but is not being offered one.

School assessment did not include evidence from teachers from other schools.

This is all going off topic.

The main question is "Am I entitled to demand a scribe?"

OP posts:
TheFallenMadonna · 05/03/2016 15:50

Where do the retired SENCO and other teachers come in?

camptownraces · 05/03/2016 15:49

You said
School assessed. He qualified to use a spellcheck in exams which you can only access if you qualify for a scribe.... standardised scores below 84. Independent and objective evidence from former SENCO and qualified teachers from other secondary schools.

Are you now saying that the school's assessment consisted of evidence from teachers at other schools? This is most unusual, and I don't think it carries any weight. What counts is evidence from the current teachers.

OR
Are you saying that the school has evidence for spellcheck (with word processor) but are refusing to implement the spellcheck?

Tell us what is actually happening.

TheFallenMadonna · 05/03/2016 15:49

Yes, I do.

ChalkHearts · 05/03/2016 15:47

He must be doing pretty badly in class now if he needs a scribe and isn't getting one.

Halftruth · 05/03/2016 15:43

I 'm a mature learner at college they just did some test on me and im entiled to a reader . i'm 35 so why is he not getting his need's met .

Original poster
CanvasAwning · 05/03/2016 15:41

the school have organised for him to be assessed for access arrangements, including a scribe, but will now not provide one?

Yes. Do you work in secondary school?

OP posts:
TheFallenMadonna · 05/03/2016 15:32

IME, few students have a scribe as part of their access arrangements. All in my school do have EHCPs in fact, although there are many more with other access arrangements including WP and using a computer reader.

I'm not clear on what is happening. You son is in year 11, and the school have organised for him to be assessed for access arrangements, including a scribe, but will now not provide one?

Original poster
CanvasAwning · 05/03/2016 15:28

There are not enough TAs to cover every child that qualifies for a scribe in every single lesson. If approx 12 children per year group qualify for a scribe then the school would need 60 TAs just to cover them and would need even more TAs to cover all the other SEN students. Many students who qualify for scribes will not have EHCPs.

OP posts:
LIZS · 05/03/2016 15:05

Most students that have scribes will only have them for exams and controlled assessments and coursework.

No they won't , unless due to an accident or sudden event, as it won't be their established mode of working. Has your ds taken mocks recently? What access arrangements did he use if so. Without an ehcp it isn't a defined need and won't be enforceable. There is a deadline to submit access applications shortly for summer exams iirc.

Original poster
CanvasAwning · 05/03/2016 14:52

Schools cannot afford to provide human scribes as normal way of working unless the pupil is very needy, and it's specified in an EHCP.

There will be many more students that qualify for a scribe than have an EHCP. It's not a question of being very needy, but qualifying for a scribe via standardised tests. Most students that have scribes will only have them for exams and controlled assessments and coursework.

OP posts:
Original poster
CanvasAwning · 05/03/2016 14:47

I appreciate that it has to be normal way of working but how can it be normal way of working for someone who has only just been tested? There needs to be a day from which it becomes normal way of working and prior to that day, it won't have been normal way of working. What if school were legally required to offer it as normal way of working but didn't?

OP posts:
Bluebonnie · 05/03/2016 14:00

"School assessed. He qualified to use a spellcheck in exams which you can only access if you qualify for a scribe.... standardised scores below 84. Independent and objective evidence from former SENCO and qualified teachers from other secondary schools."

CANVAS AWNING - Please read the current regulations, paragraph 5.7.4 on page 46.

You will see that Normal Way of Working is the turning point.

If word processing is his normal way of working, AND certain conditions are met, he may possibly have spell check enabled but will lose the SPAG marks.

There is no way he can have a human scribe unless that is his normal way of working.

Schools cannot afford to provide human scribes as normal way of working unless the pupil is very needy, and it's specified in an EHCP.

rosebiggs · 05/03/2016 13:02

What was the spelling standardised score and what percentage of his writing is illegible to a person not familiar with it?
Why are school assessing for access arrangements at this late stage?
Have school allowed the spell check because using a laptop is his usual way of working?

School must be able to provide evidence of usual way of working and history of need to an Inspector. If someone has had an accident and needs a scribe then there will be no evidence, but for a spld there should be. If JCQ decide that the school haven't followed the guidelines the student can be disqualified from their course.

Original poster
CanvasAwning · 05/03/2016 12:38

School assessed. He qualified to use a spellcheck in exams which you can only access if you qualify for a scribe.... standardised scores below 84. Independent and objective evidence from former SENCO and qualified teachers from other secondary schools.

OP posts:
rosebiggs · 05/03/2016 12:20

So it's a private assessment? Schools are not required to accept recommendations from a private report if they don't agree with them. The assessor should have told you that.

In what way has the assessor decided that he has 'qualified' for a scribe? Can you explain more?

LadyPenelope68 · 05/03/2016 11:47

Who has given the independent and objective evidence?

Original poster
CanvasAwning · 05/03/2016 10:31

They have been given independent and objective evidence...

OP posts:
OddBoots · 05/03/2016 10:28

"There is clear evidence that a scribe will actually make a massive difference to his grades - the difference between an B and C or even A and C."

What format does this evidence take? Is it independent and objective? This is the evidence you need to present to the school.

Original poster
CanvasAwning · 05/03/2016 10:18

I agree Drama. There is also the concern that they don't want the commitment of an A Level student who is entitled to a scribe. There is clear evidence that a scribe will actually make a massive difference to his grades - the difference between an B and C or even A and C.

"because if he IS fully entitled to a scribe you are fully entitled to demand he has one"

This is what I really need to know - is this definitely correct?

OP posts:
LadyPenelope68 · 05/03/2016 10:14

Canvas I am fully aware of how support in classes work as I'm a teacher, I don't need you to explain that to me.

sashh · 05/03/2016 10:08

We could reinvestigate this option though as he was a bit younger when we last tried it.

Some software doesn't pick up a woman's voice as well as a man's, so I imagine a child's voice might not be picked up easily.

DramaQueenofHighCs · 05/03/2016 10:05

It may be that your DS's use of the laptop is low but good enough that they feel the use of a scribe won't make much difference to his grade. You'd be surprised how, under exam conditions, students who have used scribes for their mocks and been fine suddenly forget to dictate full stops, commas, capital letters etc. (You can scribe without the student spelling out words, they just miss out on the spelling marks.)
Also as previous posters have said, dictating to you at home is VERY different from dictating to a potential stranger in a real exam. Also, again if his laptop skills/subject are good enough that the school think the lost SPAG marks will make no difference to his grade then they may also be thinking of space and finance as a factor. Harsh as it seems, they just may feel it's not worth having to potentially pay wages to a scribe (and possibly spend time training a staff member or relative to scribe for exams as they are in short supply) and having to find yet another seperate room as students who are scribed for have to have either a room to themselves or only 2 or three other (very well spaced out) students, also needing scribes, in the room with them because of the potential to hear other candidates answers.
I'm not saying the schoo are in the right, I don't know your exact circumstances, and you will need to talk to them because if he IS fully entitled to a scribe you are fully entitled to demand he has one, but I wouldn't do that untill you have talked with them about the exact reasons why.
Getting scribes for exams is a logistical nightmare and, while schools will always do the best for their students, in an either/or situation they will most likely choose a laptop. (And some students don't use their scribes which is frustrating too!)