Private school fees

new thanks for clarifying.

What was the point of that post hurray?

A City salary and a relatively small mortgage is paying for 2 sets of day fees here. We paid the first couple of years from net income and now have the next few years put away which have come from annual bonuses. No family help here and we're still having a great standard of living and can manage a couple of foreign holidays a year, newish cars, extra curricular activities, eating out but we haven't moved or extended which we would have done if we weren't paying fees.

"A vocational approach is required in such areas"
I'm unconvinced that not being able to get five passes at GCSE makes you a suitable candidate to become say a plumber or electrician.
Having recently had a very unfortunate and potentially life threatening experience of a highly recommended Corgi gas registered engineer who in retrospect I doubt had a higher IQ than my dog I'm very much coming to the conclusion that these so called vocational qualification require as much initiative intelligence lateral thinking and ingenuity as many of the so called professions. And if you're a plumber electrician etc who's thinking of running your own successful business you definitely need intelligence lateral thinking initiative and ingenuity in spades.

I went to private schools. Now my boarding school friends have children but only half or so are using private schools - and in every case either grandparents are paying fees or the family have a tiny mortgage as "our parents helped with the deposit" means £200k rather than £2k!

Luckily I live in an aspirational part of London where parents encourage children to learn and the secondaries are large enough to include several grammar-level sets. Though have to admit am intrigued by those ads in the newspapers for private London day schools which offer up to free places...

Realistically only about 30% of pupils require a academic 'private/grammar type curriculum'.

This point was mad by the leader of Knowsley education committee when answering why they are the worst authority in England. He stated that an EBAC traditional academic education was not working for over 70% of its pupils.

There is a similar story all over many northern cities and obviously Thanet ,isle of sheppey and Jaywick Clacton.

A vocational approach to education is required in such areas

It is a silly idea to and not feasible to think that most grammar school parents can afford private schools !.

To comfortably afford a private day school for just 1 child a family income of around £80-100k is required.

That means both parents or (1 high earner) have to be earning twice the average wage in the United Kingdom.

Also bearing in mind that a family income of £100K pa puts you comfortably in the top 10% of UK families. 7% of pupils are educated privately, the vast majority of private pupils are obviously coming from that group.

• grammar

Also, ime a school isn't always looking for an academic child but also one who is a good citizen and will contribute to the school community in that way.

My daughter is at a girls boarding school as a day student. She has an art scholarship and also a bursary. She's bright but not a genius and is a very talented artist but I personally think the school wanted her because they like her as a person.

Actually 20% is just the % of grammar schools in Kent vs all of England (33 vs 164), whilst it only accounts for just over 2/1000th of UK population. I am sure there are pockets of low income in Kent but its a far cry from North East & majority of its grammer schools are spread over the high income (expensive) areas.

The ones that have the biggest bursary pots tend to be boarding schools ime.

Many grammars are changing their admissons criteria to reserve a % (typically 20%) for pupil premium students. This seems to be working well in Birmingham- another major grammar region and hardly the posh south. Some Kent grammars are now starting to follow suit. I am fed up personally with DD's achievements being bashed by other people as she has the opportunity to attend a grammar. Many I later find their DCs sat the test and didn't pass rather than it being a morale stance.

Mondrian - not all of Kent is wealthy. It's not only 'disgusted of Tunbridge Wells'. Thanet and Medway are extremely deprived and have a selective system.

MumTryingHerBest the according to the annual accounts which we are sent the fees don't cover the cost of running the school, other money is generated through assets, donations, other enterprises etc. They are not broken down sufficiently to detail if the cost of staff accompanying boys away is paid for by the school or parents of the boys going but I think £650 (sometimes less) for a week away in Europe (often to some of the most expenses cities) including accommodation (hotels) breakfast and evening meal (in restaurants), flights at sensible times of the day out of major airports, admission into numerous museums theatre etc, and transport whilst away is jolly reasonable.

I agree with grammar/private school cross over, its not just accounting for extra tuition fees but also increased house prices in the area. Apparently 20% of all grammar schools in England are in Buckinghamshire & Kent so not really catering for the lower income areas/population.

happygardening Does the school receive money from anywhere other than fees?

jonesthegirl Sat 27-Feb-16 23:10:05 A large number of grammar school parents can't afford private schools.

I would very much like to know what data you have used to support this claim.

There is a fairly noticeable cross over between the state selectives and privates in my area.

Coming across parents who are sitting on both a selective private and a selective state place after national offers day is far from rare.

Coming across parents who chose to send their DCs to a private secondary school when they failed to get into a state selective is not particularly rare either.

Our "extras" bil for DS2 is usually between £400-£600 a term but we pay for every piece of paper, pen text book and being a boarding school this includes toiletries dry cleaning suits etc. Trips away and day trips are IME significantly cheaper than those my DS1 was offered when he was at our local comp. Letters/emails we receive about them frequently mention things like "keeping costs to a minimum" etc, we are I'm assuming paying for staff accommodation etc but you wouldn't think this when you look at what's being charged, I couldn't find the sort of trips my DS has for what we're being charged, leaving me frequently wondering if it's being subsidised.
Nearly all the independent schools my DS's have attended run 2nd hand uniform shops which for the organised (I'm not) are a perfectly acceptable and easy way of acquiring uniform especially in the early years when children are growing quickly. You can also sell uniform this way.

We have three at / will be at private prep. We negotiated a discount and it seems like we aren't the only ones who did, we aren't in London though or even the south east so I wonder if it's more "the done thing" here than where schools have very large waiting lists.

We are mainly affording it by FIL paying although we only have dd there at the moment and that definitely won't last forever so we are trying to pay down the mortgage substantially so we have more money to spare when we take over.

On the contrary to others saying the extras are more I have actually found it to be cheaper in some respects - all clubs and extra curriculars are included so I don't need to pay out for swimming / drama etc anymore. Also after school club and trips within the school day (not residentials).
The uniform is definitely more expensive though yes.

Jones I'm no expert on grammar schools but I understand that they take those with sufficent resources and parental interest to tutor extensively the top 30% so what happens to the other 70% do they not need/deserve the type of broad education that some independent schools offer to even those not in this 30%? Or perhaps it would be better for state comprehensive education to be looked at and improved and massive differences between school X and Y in the same LA addressed.

Baleful I was just composing a similar reply in my head and you've put it so beautifully - thanks

Over the years I've always been surprised at the number of families at the various boarding schools my DS's have attended who have four and even five children in independent boarding schools. One family the father (SAHM) always seems very smiley and happy! But it's pretty obvious when you go to these family's houses and hear about their lifestyles that they are exceedingly wealthy. If your stumping up £160k+ PA in school fees you've likely to be in a very high paid job and or have very significant assets. You could I guess get a scholarship/bursary but you would be very lucky to get 4, and in many cases scholarships have very little financial reward attached and you would then have to apply for a bursary. But many school don't offer very substantial ones or only to a small number and then often only those who came top in their scholarship exams. A relatively small number schools do offer very generous bursaries to non scholars Christs Hospital being the most obvious one but competition for places is very fierce and I've heard maybe incorrectly that even they aren't as generous as the used to be and are trying to attract more ful fee paying pupils.
If you're were interested in trying for a bursary you would probably be best to start another thread specifically about this stating your area and children's age etc. and also I suspect would need to be prepared to consider boarding. There is no guarantee your DC's would get a bursary, and many schools expect your DC to sit entrance exams etc before giving you any idea of any available financial assistance that might be on offer. Every academic year two or three parents start threads on here about not getting a large enough bursary to send their DC to X despite having spent time looking at the school (and loving it) receiving lots of positive comments from the head, doing very well in entrance exams and offering lots of other stuff; county cricket player grade 8 flugalhorn at 9 years old and Olympic tiddlywinks champion. They seemed to be pretty convinced that a substantial bursary was a done deal and were very disappointed when they discovered it wasn't and that they couldn't take up the much wanted place as was their DC.

80smum, that is a very specific situation - a year 12 where they don't want to lose kids. It really doesn't mean that a family with say a rising 8 year old and 3 others behind her could find a school willing to take her and then the siblings on a reduced/negotiated rate. and if they did (outside of a bursary) then the school itself is probably not that great.

If the OP was going to research looking for a private school on the edge which might offer discounts because they need girls/boys/12 year olds/musicians, she'd honestly be better off researching the best non private option instead.

Depends if you want to be a Guinea pig though, 80s Mum. One of the advantages of a private education is the breadth on offer. Small numbers is likely to result in a limited curriculum, low level sporting achievement and lack of high quality extra curricular such as music and drama due to low numbers. Yes, it can be a good idea if you are desperate to save money but it cannot work for 4 children, surely?

It would be interesting to know where the teachers are going to come from to teach in any new grammar schools. From the existing comprehensive schools, presumably. So the position for the children not at the grammar schools just gets worse. If you cannot afford a private education, why should the parents of the children at comprehensives pay tax to educate the few at new grammar schools thereby worsening the position for the majority of their own children? If you want private, pay for it. If you cannot afford it, don't expect others to pay for an "enhanced" state system for people who are already better off!

Fees are not necessarily set in stone. It depends on how much the school thinks it would benefit from having your child on the roll.

We managed to negotiate a discount for DD when she was about to enter the 6th form (year 12). The private school she was attending was increasing its age range and DD was in the first group of Yr 11s to stay on into Yr 12.

We knew that the first 6th form cohort was very small and the school was keen for Yr 11 girls to stay on for another 2 years. DD wanted to stay, so we asked the headmistress for a 25% discount and she agreed with no quibble!

So, my advice is to find a school that is about to or has recently embarked on a new venture, such as a single sex school that has recently gone co-ed or a prep school that has opened a pre-prep or a senior section. If one fits your situation (eg if you have daughters, go to a boys school that has just gone co-ed or if you have boys, vice versa; or if yours are approaching the end of primary school, find a school that is branching out into the senior years).