Private school fees

Yes in our small lovely city with good single sex state options anecdotally the middle class (doctors lawyers engineers academic) types seem to go state. Private schools have lots of international students or grandparents paying. But not London prob different there.

The state schools my DC have had quite a few families with one or more parent with a salary in excess of 100k. There are also lots of Surgeons (including consultants), lecturers, and City types. Most of these couldn't afford private school.
One of the local private schools does have a lot of Clergy daughter's as they get a very generous discount.

Actually at a lunch party the other week I sat next to a school bursar. She said that they had heard it all regarding requests for bursaries/fee reductions. She said she chuckled at the number of marriages that suddenly mended when "deserted wives" were told that in order to qualify for a bursary there would need to be a full financial assessment.

Still, I know people with four dcs at this school. Even with sibling discounts that's about £30k out of taxed income. I did read somewhere that supposedly one third of private school pupils are paid for by grandparents - living or dead.

Can I add, please, please budget for astronomic rises in fees. DD1's annual boarding school fees have increased by £8000 in the three years she's been there (with the biggest hike this year, to pay for a new boarding house, which she won't get to see, never mind use). Thankfully she's in her final year...

In the United States and the U.K., private schools have become far less affordable over the last two decades. There are large increases each year in fees, and facilities are constantly renovated. I went to a very shabby private school, but we had excellent results. School is really little more than a teacher lecturing to seated students, after all.
Nearly all American state schools are comprehensive in nature. Many schools lack a culture that encourages high achievers. A critical mass of high achievers is needed to make working hard cool. It's much more fun when there is competition.

"I have been told that very few people actually pay full Eton fees."

That's not true at all. Just under 80% of the pupils there pay the full whack! A large proportion in this group wouldn't bat an eyelid paying it.

More than 20% get financial assistance averaging 60% off fees. Over 70 boys don't pay a bean! Instead, they get paid, e.g. allowance for free uniforms, pocket money, etc.

I know someone who sits on Eton's bursary committee and I have been told that very few people actually pay full Eton fees. Most kids are given some type of bursary.

I used to work at a school that gave more discounts than was sensible, gave scholarships to students that were not worthy and bursaries to sharp elbowed parents who were willing to stoop low.

At one point, the fee income was less than half of full fees. The new trustees pulled out of these deals. Not surprisingly, half the students left, but there was no reduction in income. The school was able to move forward on more solid foundations.

I would be very concerned about the financial viability of a school prepared to negotiate on the level of scholarships and bursaries. I would definitely be checking the accounts and not paying more than one terms fees in advance.

No decent school would risk it's reputation by giving bigger discounts to gobby parents

There's a private school locally that is a bit fluid as regards fees if they want your child/ren enough.

"Snottiness" could well be attributed to parents attitude, lifestyle & circle of friends rather than school (upbringing). Same with education, if you get DC in the habit of reading books from an early age, follow through by taking an interest in their studies (motivate, nudge or a shove here & there) & homework from primary through to secondary then you can compliment or offset the "school effect" - we can't blame school for everything, be it private, grammar or comp ....

OP in answer to your question it is rather unusual to start a thread and let it run for 8 pages without contributing to it again.

Lots of comprehensives do get good results for the top children.
There are advantages to state schools. We've turned down a good scholarship and bursary to a high performing private school because we decided DC would be happier and turn out better in state school. We heard reports of "snottiness" about the private school children, while the state school seems to turn out really nice, happy, individual kids, with good exam results too. We also felt that DC would find it hard being in a group of children who had far more money/possessions. Turning down the private school felt counter-intuitive in a way, but I have heard nothing but positives about the state school, so I feel that making that choice was the grown up thing to do! On the other hand, the sibling is at private, and that was the right decision for them.

Yes Happygardening I think your points are very valid.We live in a very rural though well off area.Although my children's school is one of the best in the area in order to fill all the places they seem to offer lots of small scholarships which can be negotiated upwards.If you're applying from State Schools you don't always realise this so it us useful to know.

Yes ,but why do you feel the need to criticise other people's viewpoint?I'm merely stating what happens in my area.Your experience may be very different but I'm so glad you consider yourself an expert in 'gobby' parents.

getoffthetable its interesting that you're not in the south. I sure you're right that there are some independent schools who will negotiate a discount but I cant help but wonder if these school are slightly struggling to fill their vacancies (no criticism of the school) and they takes the view that someone paying some of the fees is better than no one paying anything. But many schools in London and the south east are very over subscribed and it doesn't make good business sense to offer discounts to those "parents that have the confidence/authority" to ask for a discount if you can fill your spaces with those who will pay the full whack.
Secondly certainly in the south east scholarships at primary/prep level are much harder to get and you say your children have spent "several years in state schools" so maybe you've changed to the independent sector for secondary assuming your organised like one of the posters above you can spend their primary years saving money.

Thirdly fees vary considerably there are I believe day school charging £12K PA but there are also boarding schools charging their day pupils just shy of £30k PA and of course full boarding in many cases in now £36k+ before extras. So if you putting 4 through a full boarding school even with a 40% discount you're still looking at the best part of £90k a year few IMO only the pretty wealthy are able to stump up that sort of money year in year out.

Erm... I have three children in or about to go to private school all have very large scholarships so I would suggest that I do know what I am talking about. No decent school would risk it's reputation by giving bigger discounts to gobby parents (clearly talking openly about it). But also full fees for three and 60% off for the fourth still isn't going to make it affordable for very many people!

I'm really not disputing it is still a lot of money!
Certainly having spoken to other parents they have managed to negotiate further discounts at my children's school.I've no idea how other schools do it but lots of school don't publish sibling discount but state Its dependent on the headmaster.Reputedly our local public school is very negotiable on this.Disclaimer - I do not live in the South of the UK.
Secondly don't sneer upon people trying to help the OP Shamonts when you really don't know what you're talking about.

Many schools will further negotiate discounts with parents - especially if parents have the confidence/authority to do so. LOL!

Sorry this made me laugh. I should think most well-run private schools would not pride themselves on handing out huge discounts to the bossiest parents

Adding up your discounts you basically get one child at 40% of fees but pay full fees for all the others. That's still a hell of a lot of money needed.

This thread is really making me laugh.The number of posters who say it's impossible to educate 4 children privately and the number who say don't have 4 children.Its not as if you can put them back!
I do have 4 children and we have recently started educating them privately after several years in state schools.We have scholarships of 5&15% and sibling discounts of 20% for DS 3&4.Many schools will further negotiate discounts with parents - especially if parents have the confidence/authority to do so.If you're children are bright or sporty or really talented at something,a good school will want them.Just don't be intimidated by swanky surroundings or impressive credentials.

Newlife. My younger sister is head of English at a Comprehensive in Gtr manchester.

She left teaching at a highly academic girls private school, because she wanted the challenge of helping 'deprived' kids achieve A grades instead of C grades .

She tells me how 'upset' she gets when she sees children ending up with C grades when they should have got A grades. However, the most upsetting thing is the school and parents actually think the children have done well to get those grades. This is Instead of berating themselves has to why the school and system has failed these children.

She hears bright children in year 10/11 telling her that they can't get A or B grades ! . the same children in her ex private school get A* grades.

Younger sister went to grammar school and York University

I also think for the fairness of balance i should point out that my elder sister, went to my Comprehensive and ended up at Durham University.

However, The school still failed me . They were always comparing me with my sister and they failed to diagnose my ASD symptoms.

Oh, sorry meant to add, our other dc got all C's from school.
Some of the results were expected but ds1 excelled in Maths and Statistics and was expected earlier on in the years to be A* it didn't happen.
Likewise ds2 was the brightest of our children, he had work published at age 6, a brilliant story writer and excelled in English, he also got C but was predicted A*
Fair enough other subjects as predicted but there were some B's they missed out on.
You have to be mighty motivated to believe the system can work for you after this.
Both ended up dropping out of A level, they did other quals but ask them and they feel they were let down, especially ds1.

That's right, I was pointing out that whilst some on here can talk about good comps that are in nice areas, with bright children who can excel, there is the other type of comp.

My dd is only 12 and in this specialist music school until 18 hopefully.
You never know if these schools are going to work for the whole of the school life, but for us it's not much less than a miracle, honestly.
She is mixing with people from all walks of life from the very rich oligarch to the sink estate unemployed and everyone in between.

If it doesn't work out there is no way on God's earth she would attend a school offered round here, we would have to H.educate again. That's not being snobby, but realistic in terms of her goals.

Are not giving children a chance !