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Secondary education

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What does parental involvement actually mean?

33 replies

Etainagain · 10/02/2016 14:37

Just that really. I started a thread on here about something else and those who kindly replied made me realise that I'm probably not involved enough.

My parents didn't show the slightest bit of interest in my education and so I thought that by asking my DC questions such as 'how was your day', 'any homework' and general nagging was 'showing an interest'. I also make sure that their attendance is good (no days off for shopping trips unlike some of their friends) and, if they slip a grade, I always ask them why that happened and, if they slip a lot, I speak to the teacher about what my DC can do to improve. I also go to all the parents evenings (my parents never went to one of mine).

At DS's Yr 6 open evening at primary school, his teacher said something about her not levelling the homework because kids get help from their parents. I always thought that the point of HW was to do it independently, so I don't really get involved. As for the DCs at secondary school, I don't think I would be able to help if I wanted to. But should I be trying to learn what they are doing? Should I be sitting alongside them when they work or read the books that they are reading? I'm beginning to think that I am actually a very lazy parent.

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BoboChic · 11/02/2016 16:51

We've always kept a close on eye on the DC, plugged gaps, added masses of enrichment and helped them with homework. It seems to have worked very well so far - both DSSs are doing very well, independently of us, at university.

mercifulTehlu · 11/02/2016 10:37

I agree there's no set age and obviously some need more support than others, but I think that how much parental help/interference is given can often be based more on the parent's need for control than on the needs of the child. I have seen this often in students up to sixth form age. It is obvious when one speaks to the parents at parents' evening. I admit that I have somewhat over-confident children if anything, but how much of that is down to taking after their father genes and how much down to parenting style, I couldn't say!

EricNorthmanSucks · 11/02/2016 10:29

Yes. I said eleven years old.

mercifulTehlu · 11/02/2016 10:26

I said year 7, not 7 years old.

EricNorthmanSucks · 11/02/2016 10:16

merciful eleven is still young.

Many of them are still very immature at that age, lacking in confidence. It's normal!

There is no urgency to reach independence (in learning or anything). There is not set age at which it should happen.

But for most of them it will happen.

BitOutOfPractice · 11/02/2016 10:08

""Good enough" isn't what I'm aiming for for my kids, tbh. I put the work in, so do they, it's all positive. Their exam results so far are way way beyond "good enough"

I was ready to slink off in a haze of parental guilt when I read this but once I read what ProfG actually means by this I realise it's doing exactly what the OP - and me - are doing!

Badbadbunny · 11/02/2016 10:02

I don't see there's a problem with helping your child do their homework and projects, but it has to be short-term, with more of an angle of showing them how to do it, rather than taking control and doing it for them.

What worked with our son was being very hands on at first when he started secondary because he had virtually no confidence and would get upset if he couldn't do something. So that meant virtually sitting with him and doing the homework with him, and yes, sometimes dictating answers for written questions, planning posters and powerpoints with him, etc. When he came in from school, we discussed what homework he had and I made sure it was started soon enough so we had time to do it properly. If homework was revision, we'd sit with him and try various techniques to find out which worked best for him. So, yes, very intensive at first. It worked to the extent that he got good marks, never missed a homework, and his confidence was massively boosted. But we only did that for the first term.

At the start of the second term, we started to scale back. He still wanted us to help, and it was hard not to, but we manufactured excuses not to and encouraged him to try himself at first and then we'd come back and look over what he'd done. Little by little, it boosted his confidence. We still kept control, though, often looking through his exercise books and checking he'd done all his homework. We did a lot of revision with him at the end of the first year for his end of year tests, and he did very well in some where we'd done proper revision, and not so well where revision hadn't really been good enough - a really good learning experience for him!

Over the second year, we were a lot more "hands off" and left him to do most of it himself, we just checked his homework was done and helped him plan his time (i.e. do it on the night it was set rather than letting it build up and last minute panics the night before). We still checked his exercise books at least weekly to see what he was doing, what marks he was getting, and so we could informally discuss the topics he was studying. He'd often ask for help/guidance whilst doing it, but we weren't sat with him anymore most of the time. End of year 2 tests were very good, again for most, but again, fell down in one subject where he hadn't revised properly (and he knew it!).

Now in the third year, we're virtually "hands off" completely on a daily basis. He's got into good habits, does most of his homework on the day it's set, will happily take a book to bed to revise for tests. He needs a nudge occasionally to get off his xbox and do his homework. He now shows great pride in doing his homework himself and showing off the end result to us, not to proof-read, but because he's genuinely pleased with himself - it's not perfect and I could easily find fault/improvements, but we let it stand to be properly marked as his own work. Very rarely, he hits a problem or there's a question he doesn't understand, and we'll talk it through, but we don't tell him the answer, we show him how to find or work out the answer.

Bolognese · 11/02/2016 09:43

Happiness and success are not mutually exclusive, most often they are codependent.

Imagine DC gets average results but parents say that's ok because I want them to be happy, not pushed. They get average GCSE's, A-Levels, then get into Bolton university and get a 2:2 in town planning and transport. But its all good because they are happy, they made their own choices.

They now work in a pub, can't afford a house or car and are bitter at the world for not giving them a job in town planning that pays the wage they deserve. But its all good because their parents didn't support them (not my story)

Whats the morale of this story?

TeenAndTween · 11/02/2016 09:13

Eric year 7 not age 7. Smile

EricNorthmanSucks · 11/02/2016 09:04

They behave like that because they are seven. Not because of parental mismanagement.

mercifulTehlu · 11/02/2016 08:57

Independent learners (whatever that means). I think it's pretty obvious what it means. I've taught many, many children. Some of them are clearly used to having every little thing they do checked and micro -managed by mummy and daddy. They tend to be the ones in year 7 who put up their hand repeatedly and ask "Do I underline the title?"... "In what colour?"... "Shall I start a new page?"... Grin

EricNorthmanSucks · 11/02/2016 08:56

vulcan why would be either or?

Madmog · 11/02/2016 08:49

Mine are older now, but pretty much the same as you and reiterating occasionally that it's okay to ask in the hope we can point in the right direction.

Funnily enough my DD was getting excellent for her art in Year 6. We were invited in to see lots of art (ie more than one piece from pupils) and there were lots that looked much much better than hers and had a lesser comment, like good. I questioned this and teacher told me it was clear DD had done the work herself and it's exactly what was expected from her age, whereas some of the others had clearly done the work with their parents and she didn't really know what their input was!

VulcanWoman · 11/02/2016 08:23

Good enough" isn't what I'm aiming for for my kids, tbh. I put the work in, so do they, it's all positive. Their exam results so far are way way beyond "good enough". What is the most important thing happiness or success?

EricNorthmanSucks · 11/02/2016 08:01

I've always been super involved in my DC's education both in school and out.

I see it as my responsibility as a parent and one of the primary ones at that. School is just one small part if it.

When they were younger, I kept abreast of all their school work so I could keep a close eye on any weak areas and any areas where I could introduce connected ideas and experiences.

As they got older I continued to do that and offered as much formal help as DC requested. That involved helping with homework.

I kept hearing on MN that this was A Bad Thing. That I should leave them to it. That they wouldn't become independent learners ( whatever that means. As an adult I constantly seek out help from those more knowledgable than me).

But no. They are lower sixth now and all is well Grin.

RidersOnTheStorm · 11/02/2016 07:54

We left both DSs to it unless they asked for input.

I'm an arts graduate married to a science grad, so, luckily, we had most subjects covered between us.

Sometimes they'd ask us to look over a piece of work before submitting it or ask for a bit of help if they were not clear on something.

I nagged about completing homework up to GCSE level then backed right off. I told them they had chosen to do A levels and it was down to them to get the work done. Still there for advice or reading through assignments if requested, though.

Transition to university went very smoothly. Unlike the DCs of a few friends whose parents deserved their grades more than they did.

ProfGrammaticus · 11/02/2016 07:47

"Good enough" isn't what I'm aiming for for my kids, tbh. I put the work in, so do they, it's all positive. Their exam results so far are way way beyond "good enough".

BackforGood · 10/02/2016 22:39

Your level of involvement is completely good enough. I didn't see your other thread, but I suggest you keep in mind that MN isn't usually that reflective of a very broad spectrum in life Wink

angelcake20 · 10/02/2016 22:32

Our year 6 asks parents not to help with homework, though I'm not sure how much this is adhered to. I will answer specific questions if asked but that's it. Year 8 DS won't even show me his homework, probably because I'm fussier than his teachers, so I know what he is doing but that's it unless he wants me to test him on something. I was shocked to hear one of his classmate's mothers saying that her son does all his homework in rough, then she corrects it and he writes it out again!

TeenAndTween · 10/02/2016 20:48

I worked out DD1's GCSE revision timetable with her. But one of the aspects of her dyspraxia is she can't organise her way out of a paper bag.

I also did ~100% of her maths revision with her, and probably 80% of the science. But that was what she needed. I did no MFL revision with her (but did help her learn her CAs).

It is useful to have read the set texts. e.g. Tell me about Curly's wife? Then if they tell you a load of rubbish you can probe their understanding more easily. (That said I didn't read LotF as I found it so disturbing when I first read it I had no desire to reread it). We got the DVD for the Shakespeare and watched together it scene by scene with the study notes.

With a different DC I might say 'show me your revision timetable' and then do a sense check on hours allocated per subject.

LegoRuinedMyFinances · 10/02/2016 20:33

There's a difference between supporting your child to help them become independent as described by Prof and just taking over and doing the homework yourself.

I support, make sure they've got the essentials for the day, but the work is done by them.

My DS's old school used to annoy me as they would give high marks on projects completed by the parents. The parents were quite honest about it in the playground. Whereas DS, who had support (I got the materials necessary for him to complete the work) but didn't have me doing it for him, was often given low marks when he had worked for hours on some of it. Bloody ridiculous.

Etainagain · 10/02/2016 20:24

I'm wondering whether I should be reading my Dd's English Lit GCSE set texts so that I can discuss them with her although I'm not sure I would have anything useful or intelligent to say!

Would you sit down with a Year 11 and help draw up an exam revision timetable? I haven't done this in the past.

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Bolognese · 10/02/2016 20:24

Your not lazy if your asking the question. I agree you do not do your child's homework for them but I disagree that you just let them get on with it alone. Its not one or the other.

Imho homework is done at home specifically to get, one on one help, from the parent and also to get a different perspectives from that of the teacher. So I help my DS with every homework, some more than others but I never do it for him. If you want your DC to do well that is where you should invest you time.

ProfGrammaticus · 10/02/2016 18:59

But no, don't read books they are reading. I didn't even read their exam coursework! But I knew when it had to be done and handed in, and I made sure the printer had ink and paper. (Always make sure the printer has ink and paper...)

ProfGrammaticus · 10/02/2016 18:56

And in year seven it involves siting with them while they pack their bags and get their uniform out for the next day, sometimes even packing their PE kit if they are especially knackered. And it involves knowing in your head where they should be, when, and with what, so that you have got their backs if they forget something and they have their keys and their phone is charged and they know what to do if practical things don't go according to plan.