how important is DofE?

I take it that was a particularly hamfisted dig at my DD. There are in fact arenas where middle class signifiers can do harm, as it happens, but more importantly there are areas where embodying the concept that yomping = 'rounded' will do you harm. It's a bit like riding lessons. Yes they are seen as middle class - but a particular subset of middle class. Which those in it, think is wonderful. And those who aren't - however posh they may be - really seriously don't.

As for the idea that DoE leaders are concened that their particular subset of MC smugness should be 'open to all backgrounds' (when in reality of course it can't be) the faux noblesse oblige is staggering.

DofE is indeed a MC signifier.

But no more so than living in [insert nice area] or attending [nice school]. In the great sea of middle class signifiers (conservatoires, LAMDA lessons, poetry competitions) DofE is just one more.

But frankly, in the UK today, there are very few arenas indeed where middle class signifiers will do you harm.

The kids dh took were not middle class exvept for that few months they joined then left the teens who went from bronze through to gold certainly were not middle class Dh wanted his group to be open to all backgrounds

Autumnsky - I agree that there is a macro benefit to DofE, in that it normalises in society the educational experiences that are packaged by DofE.

I don't think it is of any use on CV, but it does have som benefit for some children. However, if you DD doesn't want to do it, you can only tell her the benefit, and let her decide.

DS1 is doing it, he has been looking forward to it, and I think it is a good opportunity as well. For learning new skill side, he does the same as before. He has been learning 2 instruments, and he also does 2 sports. For volunteering side, he now helps in a club for primary school children, which I think is good for him. The best part for him is the expedition side, he has attended a few training session, and will start to do a couple of warming up one involve camping, walking and navagation in the forest. We start to do some walking during weekend, as I think he need to gradually build up resistence. They need to walk 8 hours a day in the formal session. And he is in the same group with a few of his friends, that's quite important too.

I think is Dofe is an opportunity to put lots of good activities together, and as parents, it would take some effort to arrange these sorts of things, but now it is all arranged by school, which is great.

Some friends' children are not doing this, but they started to do some jobs, like deliverying papers and other part-time works. I think it is the same. These all help our DC to become mature, independant and caring.

Interesting, Uhtred. TBH DofE always makes me feel a bit uneasy but I hadn't spent enough time thinking about it to put any words on my feelings. I suppose the packaged and branded nature of the worthiness makes me cringe a bit.

It screams middle class privilege. And promotes a skewed idea of what is 'rounded'. If you're in that middle class privilege bubble you will never see it. But it does.

"In fact, it doesn't send a very good message to many people."

Say more?

My nephew has done Bronze/Silver/Gold at an IB school. He also does MUN and plays cricket at a high level. He was able to use bits of his other extra-curricular interests and the IB programme to fulfill quite a lot of his DofE requirements. It would have been a lot more time-consuming to do DofE had he not been able to do that.

TBH I think my nephew has done so much extra-curricular activity over the years that his academics have suffered a bit. My DSSs did fewer extra-curricular activities and more homework and it has had a better pay off so far. But who knows what they will all think in future and where their skills will take them?

It's completely unimportant. In fact, it doesn't send a very good message to many people. Don't push her to do it.

My DDs very bright friend got Gold D of E and no offers from university at all (very popular subject). Sporty out-doors people like it. Others hate it. It is perfectly possible to play music, enjoy drama, volunteer, play sports, and many other things without yomping around the countryside on expeditions. It was this element that stopped my DDs going beyond Bronze. It is middle class and very much pushed in independent and grammar schools.

I was pushed into doing the Gold. I didn't want to do it as I already had lots of commitments and DOE is a big commitment- especially the Gold.

The woman who pushed me into doing it was a family friend and I should have said no but I was young and shy.

I found it a slog, although it did force me to do things I would not have tried otherwise - abseiling, yoga and so on.

Had I been more enthusiastic, I might have enjoyed it more. I didn't complete it, with is a shame, but I don't regret that. It had no impact on my life at all.

It's a good thing to do but I don't think it's necessary for a cv etc.

Both my DC have loved it. Currently doing gold.

I've got to be honest, the skills/physical parts are a bit redundant for many already active DC who have lots of outside interests. They just use their on going activities.

But the expeditions are challenging and fun. And the voluntary work is great (DS is still working in the same charity shop he started with on bronze, despite the fact that he could use the involuntary voluntary work everyone at his school is strong armed to do (whether they do DofE or not)).

I did gold D of E (and bronze and silver too obviously) many, many years ago.

It was heavily pushed at my school and we were told gold was worth an A level! It wasn't of course.

No university or employer ever showed the slightest interest in my having done my gold D of E award.

I did get to meet prince Philip - he reminded me of the fake clockwork toys in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. That was all a bit surreal.

I found the mountain climbing element of the expeditions torture but perversely enjoyed it - I would happily have cheated and walked around Scarfel Pike but my group wouldn't let me :o

I still look back on things I did though, and it was so long ago it must have made an impression.

I did swimming for my gold sport - just solo - you could get almost anyone to sign it as far as I remember.

For the voluntary work part of gold I asked at a respite care club for disabled children and absolutely loved working there one Saturday morning a week, and actually kept going once I finished the amount of work I needed for my D of E credit. For silver I did one of those Cathedral Camp holidays - they probably still exist. We white washed the interior walls of a cathedral side chapel thing and slept in an attached hall, like camping. I have no idea why I did that as I am not remotely religious, but it was a cheap or free week away without parents as well as counting for D of E...

I think it is quite a good way to try things you'd never otherwise have done as a teen, makes you a more well rounded person etc. I don't think it is remotely useful for your CV though, unless you have nothing else on it aside from your GCSEs, not even hobbies to talk about...

my dd and her friends decided against it
there was substantial cost as it was not run within the school
I am confident it didn't make any difference to her confidence, she did Challenge after y11 in the outskirts of London and this took her well out of her comfort zone!

For my not very academic, not musical, not sporty, not going to uni DD, doing bronze was good. It took her out of her comfort zone, and made her push herself on the expedition which was a real achievement for her. It also made her keep up extra curricula activities.

She is continuing with silver in a gentle way, will take at least 3 years over it if she finishes at all (expedition may fall by the wayside). Partly my thinking on this is that though lots of A level kids have DofE, I wonder how many BTEC kids do, and it will give her something else to talk about at interviews.

Friend's very high achieving but very shy DD got masses out of her volunteering for DofE which she wouldn't have done otherwise. She is so much better with strangers, eye contact etc these days.

If I had an academic child who had already shown long term commitment to stuff via music, sport or whatever, then I would be less fussed.

I've just had a look at the DofE website. They are celebrating their Diamond Anniversary this year!

Our school offers D of E from year nine and is a bog standard comp. I think they paid £80 for the bronze so a lot didn't do it (school on edge of a large area of poverty)

My youngest will do it at cadets as it's funded there.

I would imagine interviewers would be more interested in several years in the police cadets with voluntary work, community work etc than their d of e.

I don't think it's fair to force her if she's reluctant. However, I know her music can be used as one of the skills as my DD is using hers for the six months skills. She maybe able to use her running, she would need to set herself goals, ie more stretches, running faster one week, running further another, maybe doing a local charity run one week, but she'd need an assessor to monitor this and confirm she'd worked towards her goals. Has she got any friends who want to do it, that may encourage her.

I don't think it's true to say they all have it. Out of DD1s vast school there was only one other pupil who was doing the gold at the same time as she did. I'm fairly sure he dropped out.

DD1 did bronze, silver and gold and it was a great experience for her. She loved her volunteering role and continued with it until she left home for university. It doesn't help directly with the UCAS form but DD did talk about the transferable skills that she gained from it.
She did bronze and silver with her very middle of the road state comp and gold which was organised by our county council. They have a designated member of staff to organise the expedition. Obviously it was up to her to arrange the volunteering, sport and skill. They also have to do a residential trip for gold which again she organised for herself. I suspect she might have liked maybe sailing in the Caribbean or similar but she ended up in a tent in the UK which is available to most.
DD2 didn't do it. She's applying to universities at the moment. She'll still get a place. So its not essential but it's fun and the skills learned are useful.

My DD was much the same. Academically strong but not one for yomping over half the county with a huge rucksack BUT she thought she should give it a go 'as everybody does.' She would now say she's really pleased she did. Made different friends, had a great laugh and achieved something she never thought she could.

From my point of view I'm not too fussed about the piece of paper at the end or the addition to the CV. Agree that so many people have it now, it's hardly noticed by many. But I do think it is vital for them as evolving human beings. It's good to help others for no financial reward, it's good to do something you otherwise wouldn't, it's good to be out of your comfort zone and off your usual path.

How many of them weren't from highly affluent backgrounds?

No idea. Do you think that you can buy a DofE Gold? It takes a bit more effort than that.

At DD's school they had a fund to help those who struggled with the expedition fees.

My DD was much the same. Academically strong but not one for yomping over half the county with a huge rucksack BUT she thought she should give it a go 'as everybody does.' She would now say she's really pleased she did. Made different friends, had a great laugh and achieved something she never thought she could.

From my point of view I'm not too fussed about the piece of paper at the end or the addition to the CV. Agree that so many people have it now, it's hardly noticed by many. But I do think it is vital for them as evolving human beings. It's good to help others for no financial reward, it's good to do something you otherwise wouldn't, it's good to be out of your comfort zone and off your usual path.

Dh used to be a D oE leader he used to get an influx of 16/17 yr olds just before university applications went in and for the months before they left school they really were not arsed dh tried to get then engaged and enthusiastic soo if your Dd isnt interested leave her to do her other stuff.