Can anyone 'rank' the SW London selective schools

Yes but you would assume similar percentages at each establishment would choose to go to Kings, Imperial etc so Oxbridge places is still a good rough guide.

perhaps some of the most talented students are going to Kings, Imperial, MIT, Caltech, Harvard, Stanford or other top Epn universities? Oxbridge is not the only indicator of success..

It's OK, my son is a bit odd. I couldn't deny that.

Westminster do send far more to Oxbridge but they attract the superbright odd kids who probably only concentrate on the subjects they like. All the W boys I have known have been off the scale clever but justs a teeny bit odd! No offence MOC.

And in defence of Kings I would say that the required grades to stay for 6th form are very low because they are aware that many boys joined at age 7 and will want to stay with their friends. The specific requirements are 22 points with 4 for an A, 3 for an A etc, bearing in mind that 96% of exam entries were A or A it's a difficult target to miss. IME Boys tend to leave because they want to pursue a particular sport or drama! ( parents have too much money will never have to work).

And every school now weeds out after AS levels even the local comps if DCs son't do well enough.

I'm surprised to see St. Paul's ranking above Westminster in that list, given that SPs sends around 33% to Oxbridge and W around 44%.

I'm slightly biased in that my oldest is at W, it must be said.

Yes fleur that's exactly what I meant. You could have 500 applicants for 100 places so you could say your odds of a place are 1 in 5 (not true but for simplification). Then next year have 1000 applicants in total yet the extra 500 are nowhere near the required academic level so again your simple odds are now 1 in 10 but that's not true in reality, it's still 1 in 5 really...

Hampton do seem to set one of the hardest exams and yes it does appear to be maths heavy - I was told that the maths result counted twice since there were two English papers, but I don't know if that is true. I remember that DS2 who is very good at maths only just about finished the Hampton maths paper and many didn't even get that far. Compare that with the Reeds' maths paper he finished it, did it again to check, then looked out of the window until the end.

surely it's the quality of the candidates and the number ranking that school as their top choice that is key - not simply that there are 500 applications for 70 places?

I don't know some of those schools in the list so cannot comment but think a ranking is misleading. IME with a group of Y6 boys last year, there was no consistency as to where they all got offers or even interviews - some schools are looking for certain characteristics/talents?

Local boys schools in order of place according to the Sunday Times parent power:

2 St Pauls
6 Westminster
11 Kings College
14 RGS
23 City
27 Latymer
38 Hampton
44 Trinity
46 Dulwich
57 Whitgift
67 KGS
135 St Johns
192 Reeds

I have always assumed that it must be easier to get into schools around Croydon because there are so many quite close together, but unless they are adding huge amounts of value they must be just as difficult to get into.

is 500 applicants vast?

When my oldest son sat for Latymer there were over a thousand. I don't think it's particularly vast, no.

Parents receive guidance about which schools to sit based on how strong a candidate they are for that school. Schools go to great lengths to dissuade parents from sitting their children for schools that are too ambitious. The idea is that you sit them for schools that they have some chance of getting into.

You can't compare the 500 sitting Trinity to the 500 sitting another school.

eh? it's just number isn't it? number of places offered compared to numbers trying to secure a place? = your odds = "how hard it is to get into" which is what the OP asked. Whitgift is easier to get into that Trinity at the moment because they offer more places, hence take more boys with lower marks. is 500 applicants vast? I thought they were all 400/500.

I don't think Trinity can be considered 'harder to get into'.

I am pretty curious about Hampton, it seemingly crept out of nowhere into a fairly top space. Or did it not? I hear it's very maths-heavy.

schmack - I don't know Trinity that well compared with others, I'm mainly going off others comments and friends' applications to the south london schools - Trinity/Whitgift/Dulwich.

I would say that numbers can be misleading. It's the academic ability of the numbers that matter. Out of 500 say, you could find that there are many applying on the off chance of a good day, or as a backup, or as a mock. It's impossible to tell. For example for DS2 school out of 8 that applied to it from his Primary school and others I know, I would've put money on 7 of them not making the grade (or anywhere near it). And I was correct. There were many boys from his Primary that applied to Tiffin that were wasting their time!

That's just a small example but I think you have to be wary of seemingly vast numbers applying being perceived as creating great competition or increasing the typical academic entry level to a significant degree.

Last year Trinity only offered 60 (or possible 65 in the end) places in y7 which has to put it further up the "harder to get into" scale surely? assuming similar number apply. I thibk it was nearly 500 sat the exam last year, is that similar to the other schools? Whitgift is definitely easier in terms of the papers and places.

For girls, it's St. Paul's. I'm not a mother of girls, but as far as I know there's nothing nipping at its heels. Latymer is possibly next?

For boys, it's Westminster.

There aren't any real safety schools anymore, back when my son started reception it was Emanuel but even that's competitive these days.

I'm going to put up a word of defence here for KCS. My DS spent a happy ten years at the school and the pastoral care was exceptional. In my experience the boys who couldn't cope were over tutored in the first place by parents who were slightly delusional, including some who disregarded advice at prep level. I can put my hand on my heart and say my ds was never swamped with work except for U6 when he pulled his finger out to aim for 45 IB points and prove a few masters wrong about his overethusiastic social and sporting activities.

Yes, it's a tough school for academically and socially tough boys. It has fabulous music and arts provision alongside the sport. Andrew Halls would do well to be mindful that the liberal arts play a massive role in people's lives and often the children of the wealthy can chose to follow their hearts.

I'd say if you live in Wimbledon focus on Putney and WHS. One will feel more right than the other. Apply for both and see what you get with an insurance school in your back pocket.

When they are 15+ it pays to be local. They need to be gaining independence and you don't want them stranded in Lewisham on the way back from a party in Beckenham with a friend from JAGS. Rush hour Wimbledon to JAGS is gross if you have an emergency as simple as list my oyster, got no money at 6pm after a practice when the office I closed.

Coaches - great but flashpoints for bullying and much misery.

It might be worth keeping an eye on Lady Margaret, especially with murmurings about grammar schools. It had a new head and I hear is returning to some of the values that made it so popular a decade or so ago.

Thank you Chicky and SAHD

On that list I would say from hardest to easiest:

Kings
Hampton
RGS
KGS
Dulwich College
Trinity
Reeds
Whitgift
St Johns

Spot on with list SAHD
DS sat top 4
Was offered all but Kings.
Said Hampton was hardest paper, thought KGS was harder than RGS

Building on the theme. I think "grouping" is probably more accurate that "ranking." The cohort can make the difference and often those differences are quite small or vary from year to year. I also think that if you are looking at league tables, you need to consider how the schools get to those results. Some of the girls schools have a firm policy of guaranteeing all the girls a sixth form place regardless of results because they do not want to add anxiety to children who are already under so much academic and social pressure. Other schools limit who can take the exam for certain GCSEs (ie. Higher Math.) SPGS does not offer drama and art GCSE, they do their own course. Art and Drama can be difficult courses to gain A*. KCS gets amazing results but they also "weed out." A few years ago 20 boys were told pre GCSE that they would be asked to leave if a certain set of results were not achieved. Another year, four were asked to leave after lower 6th. Some children may need the "push" and others need the security but I suspect that all the schools being mentioned offer a great education for the right child.

On that list I would say from hardest to easiest:

Kings
Hampton
RGS
KGS
Dulwich College
Trinity
Reeds
Whitgift
St Johns

I can compare most of them from our applications and the academic level of those that I know gained entry - though I'm guessing at Dulwich and Trinity.

Olennas, "difficulty to get into" is perhaps a better question. Some schools, like the Harrodian, can be very hard to get into simply because they don't have many boy places at 11. Whereas Dulwich is a big school and so can take a wider range.

If looking at league tables schools will bob around in the same sort of area, so it is worth looking at several years and at trends. Results in inevitably influenced by selectivity several years before, so Emanuel, say can be expected to have an improving trend, whilst Surbiton High's result may have dipped a few years after their expansion.

Ultimately though the bast ranking is which school is best for your child. I would not pass, say, WHS to get elsewhere, except perhaps for a natural co-ed, or that rare child who is a natural Paulina. Especially for girls, where 11-16 can be tricky socially, and the last thing you want is too much academic pressure and a commute on top. It also matters where your child is most comfortable. Is this a child who likes to be in the top third or who is reasonably secure and content to be in the bottom third.

Lots of girls switch for A level, so if they want extra challenge, co-ed or a bigger school at that stage it is not a problem.

Can I revive this thread to ask a couple of questions about other schools?

How would the following be "ranked" in terms of difficulty to get into:

St Johns
Kings
Dulwich College
Trinity
Hampton
Reeds
RGS
Whitgift
KGS

Thank you!

re some of the Tiffin comments here. DD and I walked from Kingston Station last week. It was 10 minutes walk tops. We are fast walkers to be fair, but it certainly isn't the 30 minutes mentioned.