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Secondary education

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Should I send my kid to a grammar school

134 replies

Mamahen999 · 01/02/2016 00:52

Ds1 is really bright high 11 plus score . Grammar would involve a bus journey but not too bad. I'm rural so would take a little planning. Family and friends are really against this. In fact I'm feeling quite upset at the negativity about it. Local comp was in educ dept intervention as a failing school until last couple years. Turning round and kids seem to love it but falling intake. As a kid I was offered a grammar place but the family decided I shouldn't go as bright kids do well anywhere. I was bullied year 8 and 9 but came into my own and was very very happy at comp. I got middling GCSEs but got notes from grammar friends and went to technical college at night to get me the excellent a levels I needed for the high level uni course I wanted. I succeeded academically in spite of the school but the life lessons in schooling with diverse pupils was invaluable . Family Nd friends are so negative via they all went comp. none of my family went to grammar. They keep saying he'll do well anywhere but I remember vividly the underachievement of boys. Even I had to hide the fact I was studying . it wasn't cool. Yet the grammar school is made up entirely of middle class parents ( my education has made me one too) sending ds1 to grammar is saying to them all I don't agree with your choices but my bright boy is telling me mum I'll have more opportunities there. Maybe he's the bright one . I dunno but I cannot believe the negativity and hostility . Views folks.

OP posts:
ErgonomicallyUnsound · 01/02/2016 17:41

Look around the schools, you will get a feel for where your DS will fit in.

I would counter the argument that a bright kid does well anywhere with the danger of coasting, peer pressure and not standing out for being "too bright".

My DS is at a superselective which suits him down to the ground as he's very competitive. The other schools we saw I think he either would have coasted at, or not really fitted in.

I would totally ignore what others say, as it's very doubtful they understand the schools or your DS as well as you do.

Badbadbunny · 01/02/2016 15:43

It is often a different matter when it comes to their own though (Yes, I am looking at you, Diane Abbott).

Usually I never agree with her, but re her own kids' education, she's right. In theory, brilliant comps for all would be the ideal world. And that's something that a politician is right to call for if that's their belief (and supported by their constituency). But when it comes to the here and now, real life scenario, decisions have to be made on what the situation is today, not what we'd like it to be in the future! She had a choice of a selective education for her kids or comps - her belief is that she should have had a choice of several good comps. But that's not the here and now, so she has to do the right thing for her family. I don't see it as a betrayal of her beliefs, I admire her for it. She's right not to jeopardise her own kid's education for the sake of her beliefs in the long term.

almondpudding · 01/02/2016 14:58

I have one in a grammar and one in a comp.

Send him to the grammar.

mamaslatts · 01/02/2016 14:36

People are often quite happy to throw other people's kids under a bus when it comes to their principles. It is often a different matter when it comes to their own though (Yes, I am looking at you, Diane Abbott).

I think you would hugely regret sending your son to a failing school to appease other people and what they think is 'best' for whatever reason. It is up to you, your son and his dad. These randoms have nothing to do with it whatsoever.

swingofthings · 01/02/2016 14:34

Don't look at it as one of the other, most likely he would do well at either, so it's not a case of one being right and the other wrong.

My friend's DD went to grammar school, DD just went to the local comp because there are no grammar school where we are. Although they achieved similarly up to Year 6, I expected her DD to be much ahead in regards to GCSEs but as it stands, they are both expected A/A*. DD was lucky that school was only a 10 minutes walk away whereas my friends' DD had to travel for over 1 hour morning/afternoon. However, she has been very happy at her grammar school and wouldn't change things.

sydenhamhiller · 01/02/2016 14:31

I totally agree with you BadBadbunny. In our area, if you get into the local academy on a sports or music scholarship, (admissions otherwise based on lottery), that is great, but getting into grammar school apparently just means you think you are better than everyone else. I do think if we had gone private with DC1 we would have had less hassle from other parents.

It is interesting that selection by arts/ music / sport is socially acceptable, but by happening to be quite good at maths is not...

DC1 got quite a lot of hassle throughout primary for being 'a geek' and has been happier in one term of secondary school than he has for about 4 years, so I think you just try and do the best for your child, and ignore everybody else.

Badbadbunny · 01/02/2016 13:18

It's extremely sad that those closest to you can't find it within themselves to encourage and celebrate talent, ambition and success. Two generations of missed educational opportunities is more than enough - please don't add a third.

This is what really annoys me. It's celebration time if your kid gets a place in the school's top sports team, or if they land a leading role in the school play. In fact, get a place in a top drama school, or a sports academy and it's high fives all round. In primary school assemblies, any kids who did well out of school for any reason was congratulated in assembly, and special announcements were made for the few kids who got places in arts or sports schools. Yet nothing at all was mentioned about those who got grammar school places. It's like it's some dirty little secret. Do well in sports or arts and you're wonderful, but do well academically and you're a swot to be looked down upon. What a crazy world we live in. No wonder we're forever falling in world league tables for our kids' education!

GladToBeDone · 01/02/2016 12:29

If you, your DH and your DS all agree on grammar, please send him. A bright child usually benefits immensely from being with similar peers (not least of which is not getting picked on for being smart) and I don't agree that a bright child will do well in any school (plenty of cracks to fall through for a DC whose interests are not sufficiently nurtured).

It's extremely sad that those closest to you can't find it within themselves to encourage and celebrate talent, ambition and success. Two generations of missed educational opportunities is more than enough - please don't add a third.

Finola1step · 01/02/2016 11:43

Wrt to the timeline, I assumed that the ds is Year 6 and they are nervously awaiting the secondary school decision. That this is about the reaction of family members about the prospect of ds going to grammar now that it is very likely.

tinofbiscuits · 01/02/2016 11:07

Yes Bertrand I do. I have no problem with selection on academic ability, as opposed to money or religion.

BertrandRussell · 01/02/2016 10:52

Tinofbiscuits- do you wish secondary moderns were an option in all counties as well?

tinofbiscuits · 01/02/2016 10:37

Go for the grammar.

I wish this was an option in all counties, not just a few.

Gobbolino6 · 01/02/2016 10:35

I'd want to send him to the grammar, and as he seems to want to go I think your choice is made.

NWgirls · 01/02/2016 10:31

OP: you know what the right decision is. Just work on your cover story. ("Yes, you're right, clever kids do well anywhere, so we let him choose. Poor DS, he will have to suffer all those posh people we all hate" or some other rubbish along those lines).

What's wrong with people?!!! This underlying "not for the likes of us" attitude is infuriating, and really hampers social mobility. (It is just as bad as the concerns (with more headlines) about elitism (Eton etc) just the other way, but with similar effect.

PS: in case there was any doubt from the above: I think school "fit" matters greatly and with a high score (rather than borderline) he should not struggle at grammar, and probably be both happier and better educated. And if he wobbles; Current friends is the only point not to listen to - he will get new ones and keep the "keepers".

Marniasmum · 01/02/2016 10:15

Have secondary admissions not closed ages ago? We had to submit our forms by the end of October, and this is a county with a low population.

BertrandRussell · 01/02/2016 10:13

Puzzled by the time scales- are you speculating about what might happen next year?

It depends what the individual schools are like. Grammar schools can be crap- and comprehensives can be fab. And vice versa. Is it a true comprehensive or a secondary modern?

PatriciaHolm · 01/02/2016 10:05

Surely the application is already done if he's got his scores?

He wants to go. So send him. Worst case? He can transfer back to the comp if absolutely necessary; doesn't sound as if it's oversubscribed. At least give him the chance.

Badbadbunny · 01/02/2016 08:47

Ignore your family and friends. It's just inverted snobbery and jealously. We went through the same thing with our son, in fact, my sister hardly talks to me anymore, nor do several of the other mothers from my son's primary school!

It's an individual decision for you and your son. Every person is different, every school is different. You really CAN'T generalise. You'll get all kinds of anecdotal "evidence" from people, some saying they were happy at grammar, some saying they weren't. Grammars can be very different. Some are snobbish and high-brow, others are friendly and nurturing. You'll get a feeling during the open days, meetings before the 11+, and the day of the 11+ itself.

We were worried because the local grammar is ancient and austere - dark rooms, dark wood panelled walls, looks more like it's out of a Dicken's novel than a modern school, so initial reactions were a real put-off. Before we went, we looked at the website, and were worried because it gave the impression of being stuffy and too intellectual, i.e. lots of emphasis on Latin and Greek, etc. So we went to the open day thinking it was probably not for our son as he's very "normal", loves playing footie with local kids in the nearby field, loves playing computer games, etc. But what a revelation compared with the other local schools we visited! The teachers and support staff were incredibly friendly, the head of maths happily played a maths board game with my son for half an hour, plenty of emphasis on transition and nurturing, the head teacher himself was walking around and happily talking to the children, guided tours of the school were done by teachers and sixth formers, all of whom really engaged with us. After that, it was a done deal and our son really wanted to go there! Compare that with the comps we visited, where we either wondered around without any guides, with just the odd first year wondering around to help with directions, where the head appeared only for the half hour presentation in the hall, where the staff were in huddles talking amongst themselves and even looking as if they were trying to avoid talking to parents and children.

On the day of the 11+, there were loads of staff around, all trying their best to put the children at ease. They got a drink and biscuit and the teachers supervising told them jokes before they started and again during the breaks between tests. My son told me he actually enjoyed the 11+ day! It was then even more of a done deal!

He's now in his third year and has never been happier, never complains of any bullying or other problems, doing very well and exceeding all our expectations. Got a lovely group of new friends - all perfectly normal, and far less snobby than the primary school kids and parents.

If it's right for you and your son, go for it. Ignore your family and friends. it's your son's education that's at stake.

TheSecondOfHerName · 01/02/2016 07:55

The deadline for secondary school applications is the October of Y6, so are you considering what decision to make for a child currently in Y5? If so, how do you already know what he scored in his 11 plus? I'm confused.

What did your dad's scholarship to a grammar school provide? They aren't fee-paying.

Putting all that aside, I think you should send your child to the school which is best suited to him.

Finola1step · 01/02/2016 07:53

This has nothing to do with family members. This is a discussion for between you, dh and ds. No other opinions matter.

Chippednailvarnish · 01/02/2016 07:49

My mil is currently doing the same thing. Fuck em, send him where you both want to go...

PosieReturningParker · 01/02/2016 07:47

Send your child to the best school.

Principles are often outweighed by wanting the best for our kids WinkSmile

booface · 01/02/2016 07:29

If you have the opportunity of grammar and he is keen to go, go for it! He sounds a bright kid and you are being handed a great opportunity... re the comments on bullying, that can happen at any school and a good one with have excellent strategies in place if/when there are any problems.

I went to grammar, my kids are at grammar and I really do think it gives a great education.

WallToWallBastards · 01/02/2016 07:09

Attending a grammar ruined me. There was a huge bullying problem swept under the carpet, an obvious class divide, it can be difficult if you're struggling academically or are anywhere below the very top, and since I went on to a college and a metropolitan university I have been constantly berated and questioned by family/friends/stranger's dogs why I wasted my education and pissed away opportunities. This has been the experience of other people at other schools I know. Please check the school carefully though as high status schools seem to be allowed to coast along.

eurochick · 01/02/2016 07:08

Grammar. I went to a grammar. My bestie went to the comp. we stayed best friends through our teens so he doesn't have to lose friends. Do what is best for his education.