Please can we have a non-fighty thread about the advantages/disadvantages of independent schools....

My friends are very lucky who have all their 3 children go to private as his firm pays for them. The kids still work really hard, participating in various extra curr activities-they are not middle class, they still have to work very hard for their standard of life. I am planning to send my kids to private and planning to pay for them via my income from my job, I am not even senior or anywhere top, not middle class at all. Middle or first class or us working class(I think our neighbors who have their kids at private are working class to since if one stop working then they cant afford 2 kids go to private at the sametime) for selective private we all want the same thing, pay for the quality of academic and care. If we are not happy with the service then we could always go to local comp, its free and none selective> easy choice!!!

Who says in local comp there isnt class acts or bully? I am sure it happens everywhere. I am sure if I pay for private then if it happens the level of response will be worth the money paid, if not I will go to the free local comp...ofcourse.

I agree mostly everything Happygarden is saying and I am much appreciated for her honesty. Private school doesnt do less contribution to the local community(or dare I say even more as they have more resources to do so). They study in the area so contributing to the area's community where they study is also a lovely gesture why they must contribute to their home council. I am even hoping my children could do a year unpaid volunteer somewhere in the world before Univ then whats wrong???

Now,being forced to take part in your local community events - that's definitely not fun!

That really doesn't mean it's wrong to take part in your local community by going to the local school, though, does it? You're being very defensive, happygardening. Have you been made to feel unwelcome in your local community, or something?!

Meantime to add that I am very much part of my small community, but I dont run scout packs, host parish council meetings, take part in local plays or God help us run May Fairs in our local high street. I walk my dogs daily in my neighbourhood and say hello to everyone I meet, I try to do most of my shopping in my tiny local shop, and buy my stamps from my post office and eat in new rather nice cafe.
There are lots of different way to be part of your community, you don't just have to send your children to the local state school/scout group/be in the local play.

That's just what you think and feel, though, isn't it, happy? You don't have to take it as a personal criticism if other people think and feel differently and perceive things differently to you. If someone else doesn't feel like part of their community unless they are volunteering in it, you can't tell them their feelings are all wrong, just because you don't feel that way!

Happy - the OP asked for opinions about advantages and disadvantages of private schools. So this thread shows that people who choose schools outwith their local community - like you - don't see the community issue as significant. And those that choose a local state school sometimes value the community aspect. Not really suprising. Different parents value different things.

But I don't see how anyone can dispute that comps are part of the community in a way that private schools are not. Comps are open to everyone in the local area. Private schools are not. Some people tjink that matters. Others don't.

"
I just get annoyed about the idea that you can only be part of your community if you send your child to their local state school, scouts, drama club and tiddlywinks club, that all communities are stuffed with state school teachers organising or participating in local events and that MC parents should send their children to state schools preferably failing state schools so that they can use their many skills and connections to turn them into outstanding ones thus benefitting bot"

Well, you can stop getting annoyed because nobody is saying that.

I just get annoyed about the idea that you can only be part of your community if you send your child to their local state school, scouts, drama club and tiddlywinks club, that all communities are stuffed with state school teachers organising or participating in local events and that MC parents should send their children to state schools preferably failing state schools so that they can use their many skills and connections to turn them into outstanding ones thus benefitting both their children and disadvantaged children.
Where are these wonderful communities? I have lived in many places over the years both rural and urban firstly I don't recognise this idyllic model so many talk about and secondly I don't know a single MC parent who has the time or motivation to get that involved in a school failing or not.
Back in the real world most parents desire a school where their children will be happy, receive a stimulating the education that wil stay with them for life, develop essential skills for whenever they go out into the real world and achieve what they are capable of achieving, some of us are lucky enough to be able to pay for this if we feel that this is the best way our children can achieve these aims.

Suzie Mr Law was honestly a bit of a twat when he was 14, but can't blame him for that! Obviously he got better....

It was a bit disappointing that the staff at Alleyn's were so star struck. You'd think they'd be used to it after the first year or two.

A few more people like that would be nice, though... Fewer and fewer people are willing to do things like run the scout pack, etc, and they do actually mean a lot to a lot of people.

happygardening - why are you bothered by what other people want and what is important to other people? Some people like to "feel part of a community" and "take part in their community" and other people don't. Just think of Linda Snell in the Archers. It's because community is important to some people that they volunteer to run scout packs, or host parish council meetings, or run May Fairs in the local High Street, or put on community plays, or become a trustee of the local almshouses, or become a JP. I'm really glad some people are like that. It's also lucky not everyone is, or not everyone who wants the chance to be able to participate, could.

Well, it's a bit difficult to have a sense of belonging if you go to school 30 miles away, leave at 7 in the morning and get back at 7 at night 6 days a week.

And most of us don't actually live in rural fastnesses. I consider myself pretty rustic, but we're only 5 miles from the nearest town.

The comp kids IMO have the advantage of having mixed with people from a wider range of backgrounds and grown up as part of a community.

Again, it depends where you live and on the school. At our local comp in Cornwall you are certainly part of the local community, but a wide range of backgrounds? Absolutely not!

I think a lot of people think being middle class means wanting your children to learn classical musical instruments and play in orchestras, learn a bit of Latin and at least one modern foreign language, preferably two, take all the EBacc subjects at GCSE, take academic A-levels, go on to a respected university, then enter a reasonably respectable profession (eg doctor, dentist, solicitor, accountant) like your parents.

So can you not have a sense belonging if you don't go to your local scouts or drama club neither if which we have locally by the way, the nearest scouts are 15 miles away and I guess a drama club would be the same.

I hear Mr law is exceedingly nice bloke

I don't want teachers to take part in local events unless they want to. But I want my children to. I want them to go to Scouts and drama club with children from other local schools. I want them to have a sense of belonging.

Why would you want school staff to take part in local events or run community events?
When I'm at home I don't want to see the people I work with, my private life is exactly that, as is their private life.
I cross the road to avoid my clients, I don't want to meet their friends etc. and I don't them to meet mine.

Ultimately, with regard to private schooling, I think it's simply down to whether the (perceived) ends justify the (financial) means. I can't honestly say if one is better than the other, only that I wouldn't choose it.

I am in the lucky position of being in a area where schools are 11-16 , then 6th form college. Our top college is one of the top ones in the country. But if it was very poor, I would consider private (but realistically can't pay for 3 DC so it's a moot point)

suzietwo I was in a class with a girl whose parents were both in the Cabinet. She was absolutely horrible - so entitled and though she was the dogs bollocks. Really mean. But she wasn't better than anyone else, when push came to shove.

Jude Law went to my school. I was in the same year as his sister :)

I have a genuine question please what is middleclass and whats the difference between middleclass and workingclass. If I am working and earn ok, could afford a house, few holidays, sending my kids to private then what I am? (Royal blood line is First class I guess?)

When people describe a community feel, I think they mean the school feels like an important part of the community in which they also have their home (eg its staff will take part in important local events, or run community events, most local children attend the school, locals who do not have children at the school still feel they know it well and have attended events there, local children walk to school together, etc.). To be fair, I think some people do have that and this makes them feel more attached to the school as a result. Otherwise, you have a school community and a home community and possibly multiple other "communities" in and out of which you slip (eg church, scouts, choir, work, etc...) and that feels different.

If, instead of indulging in the farcical argument over whether one sector is better than the other, you focus on what is actually available to you in your area and what makes you feel good about each school, your sense of a school being part of your community and therefore being familiar and understandable is a valid enough reason for you to feel a particular warmth towards it.

"Nice community feel" "grown up as part of the community"
I never understand this community thing, or the thought often expressed on here (not this thread) that only state educated children can be part of their communities, life is not just about school, many schools both state and independent have a nice community feel, DS2's school (full boarding) has a very strong community feel.
With regard to walking to school it's easy to forget that this is a luxury that many in rural communities don't have even if they attend a state school.

"Very good at sticking together in herds at places that reflect their opinions"
Absolutely, most of the parents at DS2's school choose it because of its ethos, so it's very likely that if you herd us all together we will all have similar opinions about the sort of education we want for our children.

Personally, I rather liked going to a school where I got to see different attitudes to work and different levels of support from home - it made me appreciate how lucky I was and also keep things in perspective, as I was a bit of a perfectionist. I think an environment with lots of diligent young girls like me in it would have been quite toxic and encouraged my neurotic tendencies!