Continuing Year 13: January 2016

Hi Uhtred - sorry my post was in response to Needmoresleep about ordering the marks to get an A* in single maths.

hellsbells But surely that's the case for everyone in every subject - you only get an A if you get an A on your A2. Even if your total marks are in the 90+ range, if you didn't get 90+ in the A2 you get an A. DD1 got 100 UMS for her geo AS but she had no qualms dropping it for A2 because she knew, with her issues and specific weaknesses, that she could never replicate that on the A2, well, unless she put all the effort all the time into Geog and even then probs not.

Still need to average 90% over C3 and C4 papers to get an A* in maths - eek!

That should read, or 2 A*, an A and Grade 1 in STEP.

DS's offer for Warwick is 3 A or 2A and grade 1 in any STEP. He's on track for A* in maths and physics, if his ASs are a good indication, but FM is less certain. Anyway, we'll see in August. He's quite happy with his insurance.

I'd agree that getting an A* is more likely in maths, but I don't think that's because it's easier. It's just easier to mark, black and white rather than all the shades of grey in more subjective subjects. I'm glad DS's talents lie in maths and physics rather than history etc. Much more predictable.

hellsbells just had exactly the same text! Phew.

Just had a text from DD2 to say the FP1 paper went quite well

FM students are obviously not being penalised. The subjects where it is super hard to get an A are English, HIstory and Music (and probably art and drama too) - there's a degree of subjectivity there that makes it extremely difficult to predict if even the most gifted students will actually walk away with an A.

If the high grade boundaries are because the papers are relatively easy for the cohort taking them, they are penalising that cohort for being 'bright.'

I don't see how this is circular. The FM papers were made easier so that more people would do FM - as the tables linked above show, numbers have doubled in the last ten years. Meanwhile the percentage of students getting top grades has remained roughly the same. This means that the absolute numbers of As/A stars at FM is much higher than the number of As 15 or 20 years ago. It is unquestionably easier to get top grades at FM now than it was 15 or 20 years ago. (And harder to differentiate top maths students, hence far more universities using MAT and STEP.)

There is no evidence that FM candidates are being penalised relative to other subjects. Compare for example the percentages getting A stars at FM and at physics - the former is three times higher. In my opinion it is easier to get an A star at FM than in physics, despite relatively high grade boundaries. More top students holding Oxbridge etc offers miss A stars in physics than in FM.

DS is finding that doing STEP is making the A level seem easy in comparison!

I guess the new syllabuses (syllabi?) coming out will go some way to reverse that policy. My poor old DS3 (Y9) will never be able to compare/compete with DS1.

There was a policy a few years ago to make maths A level easier so that more people would do it. FM therefore had to be made easier because stuff from the normal A level had to be shifted into the FM syllabus and some other stuff had to kids taking these exams aren't being penalised for being bright per se they are the victims of a government policy that wasn't well thought through - or at least, that gave rise to unintended consequences. It's much harder to differentiate between people who are solid at maths and people who are shit hot at maths now through the A levels - hence STEP.

It seems like a circular argument, then. If the high grade boundaries are because the papers are relatively easy for the cohort taking them, they are penalising that cohort for being 'bright.'

Anyway, DS needs either an A* in FM or a grade 1 in STEP to get a place at Warwick, here's hoping.

I wonder why the grade boundaries are always so high on the FM modules, though?

Because the papers are (relatively speaking) quite easy for the cohort taking them. And I don't think anyone working in maths education would argue that too few students are getting As and A stars in FM - there has been considerable grade inflation over the last twenty years, as the stats I linked above indicate. The revised FM A level will almost certainly have significantly fewer students getting top grades.

Secret, what does your DS want to do next year?

hayita, that is reassuring. I wonder why the grade boundaries are always so high on the FM modules, though?

Dunlurking glad that C1 resit went well. I think that having a year more maths makes C1 seem easier when they do the resit, I seem to recall you saying that his school told him that would be the case. Anyway fingers crossed that a few extra marks on C1 will boost the overall A level grade.
DS is doing Maths but not FM so not in the same league as those aiming for Maths degrees. It's still his best subject though ironically.

One good thing about Maths exams is that most people come away with a reasonably accurate idea of how many they got wrong. Must be harder for those doing essay type subjects to gauge how well they did.

DS not doing resits or extra modules so his first exam is not until June which is a good job as he's come down with a bug.

I think for the M2 paper last year you needed almost 95% to get 90 ums.

This means that to get the same proportion of students getting an A for example, they have to be in the top few percent out of an already bright cohort.*

But this is completely wrong, because more students get top grades at subjects which are taken only by "brighter" pupils. There are no quotas for the number of A stars by subject.

Around 17% of students get A stars at A level maths, but nearly 30% of students get A stars at A level further maths. See for example

www.bstubbs.co.uk/a-lev.htm

You can see that for subjects taken by a much wider range of pupils such as Media Studies the percentages of top grades are much smaller.

I'm actually a bit shocked that a student doing FM does not know this.

DS1 says that for some of the further maths modules, like M3, only those doing FM take it, so already only those pretty good at maths. This means that to get the same proportion of students getting an A* for example, they have to be in the top few percent out of an already bright cohort. i.e. the average is pushed higher so the grade boundaries are higher. It doesn't seem particularly fair that the exam boards stick to a rigid proportion of students for each grade when the cohort is brighter. You'd think that they'd understand statistics!

Yes you are right Ellen. I just remember for Edexcel A2 papers last year there was very little movement in the grade boundaries except some of the applied papers you actually needed more that 90% to get 90% ums!

hellsbells, the grade boundaries do change with maths, the raw score gets converted to UMS, but the UMS boundaries don't change, it's the conversion factor that changes. For OCR MEI, anyway. Not so sure about Edexcel.

DS exam was for Further Maths today, he thinks he did enough for A but not A. Which is ok, he needs an A in Physics or Maths for his offer, not Further Maths!

He has breathing space until after half term now. Leaver's day is next week and we seem to have been nominated for the continuation bbq.

The view on Student Room was that the C1 paper was hard so fingers crossed for those DC that sat it today. DD1 sat C3 & 4 last year and they were harder than previous papers. I don't think the grade boundaries seem to change with maths. DD1 was hoping for an A but got an A which was fine for her. DD2 is taking the papers this year and really does need to get an A. If C1 was hard, I hate to think what the others papers will be like 😳.
DD2 has FP1 this Friday.