From Prep school to State Secondary??

don't underestimate the amount of work involved in staging a concert/play/musical believe me I don't. But the auditions by their very nature are supposed to be selective - that's the whole point of them. Not everyone can have a part - some people will have to be in the crowd or help out backstage. No shame in that.

Thanks for the link Clavinova. I had no idea there had been such a fundamental mistake in that report. I've heard the 'state school kids get a higher class degree more often' repeated quite a bit and clearly it isn't true!

Not everyone that auditions gets a part in the concert/play/musicals - and nor should they. For me that sentence says even more about the sense of entitlement you might get as a result of going to a certain type of school.

Surely it says more about the opportunities available at many private schools not least because of the facilities, the budgets available and the size of the year groups - many comprehensive schools will have year groups twice the size of their nearest independent school. Also, don't underestimate the amount of work involved in staging a concert/play/musical - pupils attending play rehearsals 6 Sundays in a row doesn't scream 'entitlement' to me.

Good people in state schools do well despite any disruptive behaviour, they learn how to deal with it which is probably why they are more likely to do better at university.

Is there a problem with disruptive behaviour in university lectures? I hope not.
I'm not so sure about state educated pupils doing better at university. Back in September the Higher Education Funding Council for England published a report which stated that 82% of graduates from state schools achieved a first or upper second degree (in 2014) compared with 73% of graduates from independent schools. However it now transpires that the HEFCE TRANSPOSED ITS FIGURES IN ERROR AND THEY SHOULD BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND - 82% of privately educated graduates achieved a first or upper second degree compared with 73% of state educated graduates. Of course, the figures were amended quietly without a public correction despite the original figures being headlined by the BBC and the Daily Mail etc.

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/university-funding-body-made-disturbing-blunder-with-claim-state-school-students-perform-better-a6718201.html

It might help if you examine why you took your dd out of state education two years ago. What were your reasons for starting her at the prep in Year 3 and are these reasons still relevant for senior school?

IMVHO a fair few parents tutor unnecessarily.

The prep schools have it covered but parents become convinced that extra support is par for the course. They're not the type of people to leave anything to chance. And money's not an issue so ...

But no parent has to buy in to this stuff. You can let the prep school do it's job .

Many children in the prep schools and primary state schools are being tutored which kind of goes against my belief of putting in private.

Do you know how many Senior, private school pupils are also getting tutored? I would be livid if I shelled out £6,000 a term for a school's reputation only to find that a lot of the results were down to tutoring, not teaching.

Habs is really not a finishing school type of environment.

As a Mum of a linguist, it is impossible to push some pupils away from where their talents lie. It could be English, History or MFL. MFL is easier to get into at Oxbridge because of lack of suitable applicants - too few state educated pupils . It is not necessarily a boy/girl issue. These subjects are hardly easy! If MFL was easy, why don't state educated pupils excel at it?

There are disruptive pupils in private schools. Class sizes have little to do with it. Rich parents can have disruptive pupils. My DDs experienced quite a few in their time!

Also, regarding "finishing" schools- there are plenty of parents who are more than happy for their DDs to interior design the homes of their friends or sell advertising space for Tatler! They will be trying to find the rich (socially acceptable) husband so a career is not vital. However, even in these schools, some parents will want their girls to excel in their chosen field, but not everyone can do STEM subjects and my DDs would never have felt comfortable had they been pushed in this direction. However the schools had a broad curriculum but obviously some girls' schools market the school to the type of parent likely to choose them.

Too many girls private schools are delivering humanities-heavy education IMVHO. It makes nabbing that Oxford MFL place easier but is that what you want for your DD? I'm slightly [massive understatement] horrified at the Finishing School style education being delivered by some so-called top schools.

I would say, with hindsight (three of my dc now post-GCSE or post-school) that the main thing that matters is how well the environment will suit the child.

My dc went on from a very mixed state primary to mainstream secondaries. Other dc from the same primary went to a complete range of schools - rough comprehensive, sought-after comprehensive, state selective, private (we're i London, so a huge range of schools available). Without exception the dc got the results that you would have predicted for them at age 9 or 10 based on their ability and personality rather than the schools they attended - dc in rough comps coming out with 11 A*, dc in private and super-selective schools comign out with a very mixed bag of GCSEs, not significantly better than their peers in non-selective non-pushy schools.

Pick the school that your heart tells you your child will be happiest in, and don't try to over-think it.

Another thing to do is to delve down deep into headline figures on A-level or IB results (or whatever school leaving exams the school offers) and university destinations. Schools are increasingly strategic and tactical to produce great headline results but, as a parent, you need to know whether the school is good at delivering the subjects and university destinations that you value. Nothing beats a bit of comparative data plotted on Excel and playing around with graphs to reveal the relative strengths of schools.

Agree with BoboChic. When we attended the offer day at DD's present school, we observed and spoke with the 6th form girls and came away with a positive impression (articulate and polite, diverse in their personality/interests, etc).

I think that a useful quick and dirty indicator is: do you find the finished product to your liking? Take a good look at school leavers (talk to them, observe them) and ask yourself if that's the sort of DC you want to end up with.

Some great suggestions from shegot . I would however add one difference - look at GCSE and Sixth Form as two separate entities. There is often a lot of movement between schools at sixth form and the reasons are diverse. Some have high entrance criteria and those who don't meet the grade are either not allowed on or even edged out part-way through to keep up their scores. A girls grammar near us for example is amazing until GCSE but students then quite like a change and head to the local boys grammar for a co-ed sixth form.

A friend of DH's emailed last night, asking us what to look for in a secondary school (our DC are in L6 now so they thought we have the benefit if hindsight).

I'll pass some of our thoughts to you OP (feel free to consign to the bin ).

I'm also assuming your DC is high ability (since you're considering Habs) which makes a difference.

What % of the cohort are the same ability as your DC.
When and how is setting introduced. In which subjects.
How many GCSEs do the school encourage DC to take.
When are they asked to make their option choices.
What help is given by the school vis a vis option choices.
Is triple science offered and to which pupils.
How many MFL are offered.
Is Latin offered.
How is the retention of teachers.
How many temp staff.
What are the GCSE grades like, relative to the ability spread.
Is there a sixth form.
What A levels are offered.
What advice is available regarding university applications.
What are the leavers destinations.
What are the teaching hours offered to A level students.

These are just academic considerations of course. We had a whole heap of other considerations for pastoral/extra curricular (which IMVHO also have a profound impact on academics as well as life in general).

Deep down you know what you want to do. Where would DD be happiest?

I sent my DC from a prep to a nice comp (nice environment, friendly approachable staff, DC and I really liked the feel of the school).

The downside is that I have to take them to some after school sports myself (though school offers some sport). Also it is harder to combine with work as they are home so early (3:30!)

Most of the prep kids go on to a very academic selective day school (15k a year) but I don't like that school. It's a hothouse stressy environment. Parents rave about it but reading between the lines you pick up on the negative sides of the pushy factor.

There are two nicer private schools but their gcse/a levels are no better than the comps.

I am sure you have done a similar comparison yourself. Visit every school at least twice (once alone and knce with DC) and talk to the HT (ask im pertinent questions ), ask parents and trust your own decision.

DS went from private prep to state grammar last year. He's thriving and I have no regrets, I think academically he'll do better in the grammar as he's competitive with the other boys and the standard is high.

The point I wanted to pick up on is the tours you'll be doing. There's no doubt that the privates (we visited) were far better equipped than his state grammar, the pools, water polo, equestrian facilities, fencing, a huge variety of sports, music, drama facilities. Some of the private schools were incredibly impressive to look round. Ds's school excels in sport and music in fact, but has much more limited facilities, it really struggles for ££ being funded significantly less per pupil than local non-grammars. The private school tour guides were also much more eloquent than at the grammar, the food was far better and there was a lovely 'ceremony' to mealtimes, rather than the scrum at DS's school.

I do think DS would have gained other, softer skills at those beautiful schools that he won't get from the grammar but we're very happy with our choice, he's really happy at 'at home' at his school and has made lovely (local) friends.

And we're going to have some great holidays and have much less pressure to retain our jobs than we would have if we'd taken the private route.

Asingle I could have written your post, almost word for word, except it's my DS. He is bright but easily led and distracted and, as friends have found who have recently started our local state option, the low level disruption which existed in his state primary and def exists in some states, really affected his concentration and ability to listen. Much smaller class sizes mean that simply does not happen. Do not agree at all that it is down to selectivity of pupils, our school deals with everyone on an individual basis. So far it is def right decision for us too but I also know some children from his old school who are doing brilliantly at the state and will probably continue to do so. All are girls but that could be a coincidence.

I think what other parents are like in a school is somewhat immaterial. Where I live the state schools have plenty of Range Rovers lined up collecting children and the streets are lined with new cars belonging to the 6th formers. However I think you should judge a school on what you actually want it to deliver. Around here the trips are balloted, but in the private schools this would be unusual. A hockey trip might cost £3000 in the private school though. We have found Art and Music far better at private schools but, this does reflect the talents of the young people that go there. The classes may be smaller in a private school but there can be disruptive pupils and, unfortunately, teachers who do not know what to do about it. Often strategies are under-developed.

Therefore look at the curriculum, the extra-curricular activities, the music, sport and art if your DD is interested and, above all, go on a working day, not just an open day. I have come across some horrible children in state and private schools - money, or lack of it, has little to do with well behaved pleasant children. However, many children in private schools have parents who are committed to education and will be very supportive of the school they are paying for. It is also about where your DD will feel comfortable and whether she wants to stay with friends. Where do other children go from the prep school?

Also, never forget that fantastic Headteachrs can leave so everything you saw and wanted inY7 may have gone by Y13! I would look more on ethos, an exciting curriculum, behaviour and gut reaction. Which do you like the most?

State schools do not have the means, ultimately, to deal with much of the low level disruption because their range of sanctions is so limited. Schools are under pressure to reduce exclusions so they have to be saved for something serious.

I agree with your last sentence Bolognese.

But in relation to the OP, I think behaviour/disruption is what anyone going from private to state is likely to find the biggest eye-opener.

I visit lots and lots of state schools as part of the widening access scheme forOxbridge.

I would say that the absolute definite number one complaint by high ability pupils is constant low level disruption. No question.

There is some appalling behaviour and low level disruption which is simply not tolerated at private schools Please, it is that sort of belief that shows how insular private schools are. State schools do not 'tolerate' bad behaviour, they DEAL with it. Private schools have entrance criteria that enables them to discriminate against disruptive pupils ever getting in and if some slip the net they just ask them to leave, something state schools can not do.

Good pupils in state schools do well despite any disruptive behaviour, they learn how to deal with it which is probably why they are more likely to do better at university than closeted private school pupils.

Oh do get a grip.

How rude to describe someone's life as a bingo card.

I don't think there is a right or wrong way. Depends entirely on the schools and the child, the only way to know is to look at them both properly and see which is the best fit for her.