Academic achievement and stress - US vs UK

Duck, I guess what we have seen in Central London is a curious mix of an English school system used by a number of very high achieving international parents wanting their own children to have the same higher education opportunities. It may not be that dissimilar to the demographics of the schools/districts used in randomparents articles.

I am not claiming this demographic is typical, nor that some of the parents are not extremely well off. However by and large I see the pressure coming from the parents, and then from a child to other children, not from the schools. Indeed I have seen schools take active steps to try and minimise it, which, like in the first article quoted is not always welcomed by some parents.

On another thread recently BoboChic described the situation in Paris:

"The internationally mobile classes are, as always, better informed than the sedentary nationals about the best way onwards and upwards."

I don't really think it is French, or British or American or Chinese, just a specific class who have been very sucessful themselves and wanting the same for their children. One expample was Chris Martin adversitising for a nanny for his then five and seven year old children and making knowledge of Japanese, tennis and chess prerequisites for the role.

Getting into a top school is tough, whether Harvard, ENA, or Oxford, and it is getting harder. Application numbers are exploding. And yes kids really are winning the (UK) national Judo competition 3 yrs running, are Head Girl & win regional/national public speaking contests while organising successful charity fundraisers, get to Grade 8 by age 10yo & be teaching other pupils & act as soloist in regionally important concerts, etc. If you want to go to a top University, England is almost certainly easier as you only need to be very good at your subject. Some are genuine, but other all singing all dancing renaissance kids start early and are whisked from sports training to music lessons to tutors all weekend, every weekend from an early age.

Though to be fair, a level of this high aspiration and willingness to work hard has rubbed off on my own childen. Hopefully though with an understanding that most of the time good enough is good enough.

Not all UK areas select at 11 or 13. Lots of high achieving areas are mainly comprehensive for State schools.
There is a lot of pressure, often more keenly felt by girls. There is also a lot of eating disorders and other anxiety issues. Most "top" schools do deal well with these issues when they come to their attention, and are willing to deal with parents who are too pushy.
Maybe the biggest difference is that all teachers are expected to take some pastoral responsibility for their students?

The teen years are a horrible time, and the worst time to be put under pressure to perform.

Most brits (even those able to pay school fees) can't afford Ivy League universities, so it's probably a small group of wealthy, very bright DC affected by the entry requirements.

I am American & am dealing with a high achieving DD who has bouts of mega-stress in English system.

I went to ordinary (govt) schools & DD is attending ordinary (govt) school, so not really relevant to this thread, but still the broader comparison is close to my heart.

The narrow English emphasis on results from just a small number of exams seems to be exactly what is causing such enormous stress to DD. She is so worried about not getting the highest marks in what she sees as her only chances to get the marks. The US system of a long-term large diversity of inputs to grades & exam results, seems much more balanced & sane to me. But then again, DD's personality is a huge driver. DH & I were never ambitious like she is. Someone put an Oxbridge flea in DD's ear & it's not helpful, now she sees anything less as substandard, argh.

As for Ivy League (what other posts in this thread seem to care about): they want future leaders. The applicant needs to show high broad spectrum achievement & especially leadership evidence & future potential. Win the (UK) national Judo competition 3 yrs running, be Head Girl & win regional/national public speaking contests while organising successful charity fundraisers, get to Grade 8 by age 10yo & be teaching other pupils & act as soloist in regionally important concerts, etc. Leadership potential is more important than academic results (for Ivy League).

I agree with Cynic. There is huge pressure on London pupils aiming for top American colleges. Kids who are carted around from specialist sports coaching to music lessons and maths tuition from their primary years. Quite a lot of cultures represented in London (not just Americans) seem to lay large emphasis on going to the right school and once there, on your position in class.

London schools, and both mine have been through private selective schools, seem to do their best to protect students. Children are usually told their mark in a test but not those of other children. (Which once lead to a mum doing the rounds at a class social to find out what marks other children got, so they can put their child's marks into context. I was clearly a failure as I did not even realise my 16 year old had had a test.) Predictions also don't seem to happen, so DD's Y13 report is full of "if she continues the good work/makes more effort/actually learns something blah blah she is capable of a top grade." There is no definition of "a top grade".

I also agree with Duck. We have come across more than a few kids whose sense of self worth seems to depend on the fact that they are achieving academically. Children who like their school because it is "the best school". Which potentially leaves a problem if a child starts to fade once subjects get more complex. Coaching and hard work can only get you so far if you struggle to understand maths/chemistry concepts or lack a talent for English/History. The "so far" may be a good University. A child may be the real deal, in which case all the pressure and preparation was probably not needed, but for those who are not, resiliance, self acceptance and self motivation will be key skills. In real life we don't always get to be top of the class.

Now we are at the end of the process we have seen some serious casualities, though I can't be sure whether this is because there will always be a proportion of kids who get lost during their teen years. But also children who have turned off or who perhaps are not as rounded as they might have been, despite the real efforts of some London schools to offer a broader education and give more qudos to participation and non academic achievements.

One observation has been that US University entrance seems to throw up more surprises than, say, Oxbridge. Perhaps because they seem to be looking for (a lot of) boxes to be ticked: SATS, extra-curricular, leadership, community, academic and so on. There is a lot more to do, and this requires pretty complete dedication from both child and parent, but if you do it you probably have a better chance than a child whose main enthusiasm is their subject. SATS practice alone seems to start three years before the test and then you resit the test several times until you get a good enough score. London consultants charge £10,000 a time to help prepare the entrance applications. Awful.

What DC say publicly about their school (and they're basically trained to say positive things!) might not reveal what they think or feel about it.

My guess - assuming that there's a real difference here, and indeed I have the same impression as you that there is - is that it's because there's so much more continuous pressure on US school students. It isn't enough for them to get good grades in externally-marked exams at the end of school: they have to maintain a high GPA (grade point average: combination of compliance and excellence score for both classwork and homework). That means their teachers are the ones they have to please, rather than, as here in the UK, teachers and students being on the same side, both wanting the student to do well in externally-marked exams.

Another factor is that, because university admissions in the US take extra-curricular activities scarily seriously, those also to be chosen and engaged in with a view to the impression they're making, not just based on what the student wants.