Bright child, good school, Year 11, got to choose A Levels. Tell me - 3 or 4?

GoMilou yes you should ask about the funding. The funding for a broader offer is conditional on grades, which is why I say it's targeted at the more able. It wasn't the DfEs suggestion, it had to be fought for, but at least that particular battle is won.

GoMilou when my DD1 was in the sixth form last year, at a midrange pretty successful independent, it never once occurred to me that she might be at a disadvantage by studying the standard offering of 4 AS in Y12 followed by 3 A2 in Y13 (had she been a maths/science person, she could have added further maths). It was what all the universities said they wanted, and all the children in her sixth form did what was asked for (with lots of extra curricula stuff etc) and achieved their goals. I remember rather tragically stalking the oxford applicants student room thread this time last year and discovering a hard core group of children who seemed to be taking multiple extra qualifications, but my DD's (admittedly anectodal) experience now that she is at university (oxford humanities) is that the students who are there do not seem to have multiple extra qualifications.

It would be interesting to know whether there is actually any statistical analysis that shows whether, consciously or otherwise, universities do award places to students who 'beat' the standard offer by adding extra unasked for qualifications, preferring them over those who offer the number and range of qualifications actually requested. My own hunch is that they don't, but this issue will probably seem a lot more pressing as a result of school responses to these changes. I've got a second DD coming through Y11 now and it annoys me that she is going to feel under pressure to take on extra qualifications.

^incase
still wanting evidence to support changes in the SCHOOL curriculum^

Not sure why you are asking me, like Molio I like the idea of direction and the loss of emphasis on exams rather than education. I do know anecdotally that for the top end of students the preU students are well prepared for independent less formulaic learning.

Given that the specs are significantly more difficult than they were

I hadn't given this much thought at all. Yes 4 subjects sound more sensible when you highlight the increased difficulty. And it's news to me that there is funding for able students. I should ask at the interview in January (yes they interview).

Her fifth subject was going to be a MFL, not another science.

Does it get any students into Cambridge for other subjects?

I have only seen NatSci for Cambridge. They do have a fair number going to good RG unis for all subjects.

Actually it was lucky DN found these two schools with help from teachers at her current school. 4 other schools in the area including her current school will offer FM only at AS.

The bottom 60% are the net beneficiaries of taxation, the ones that drain the economy...
ROTFLMAOPMPL
Your bubble is really thick

LSE has the most tortuous and tortured UCAS-form sorting process there is. Other universities are much better at selection. The demise of AS ought to provide the impetus to LSE to get its house in order...

I'm rather more interested in your own ramblings SGADM because you posted as though this was your own take on how things will go - but in your own time! I completely understand your more pressing matters . In fact I have some too (not dissimilar!).

Oh really, talkin. The bottom 60% are the net beneficiaries of taxation, the ones that drain the economy...

molio you asked me why the demise of AS might impact on widening participation.

Rather than give my own ramblings , I will dig out an email a colleague from LSE sent to me and cut and paste ( if he doesn't object) tomorrow.

Right now I am pouring my second glass of fizz and settling down to an episode of True Blood.

This year's new undergrads will have done ASs as will the current Y13s. I would expect a significant decline in the number of 5A*s attained from 2017 onwards - it's probably not helpful to compare results.

incase
still wanting evidence to support changes in the SCHOOL curriculum

remember that the top 5% are what MN cares about
the bottom 60% are who keep the economy ticking along

In that case the school is obviously doing something right in the science department GoMilou! Does it get any students into Cambridge for other subjects?

That offer sounds more sensible. So really the school is offering one less A Level for able students who can still do four if that includes FM, but they can also do the other science to AS. Given that the specs are significantly more difficult than they were, it seems pretty reasonable to limit numbers marginally at A2. It's really not necessarily the best advice to max out on numbers with the new more difficult specs - it may have nothing to do with funding, since (and I'm aware I've said it three or four times) funding for able students wanting a broader programme is actually there.

Most universities now have education academics. They measure their own work and their continued funding depends on it which means that they have a vested interest in demonstrating an effect from their studies. Other academics just try and do their best with increasing time demands plus more paperwork created by these education academics. They also have time to write for the Economist to highlight the importance of what they do .

Maybe UCAS needs to extend its role to providing info on A-level choices directly to Y11 and Y12 students? If schools aren't reliable, some other body can be.

Molio sorry about the rubbish I posted above re number of subjects at AS.

She is allowed only 4 subjects in Yr12 - only 1 is AS, the other 3 she has to take to Yr13. She may take FM as an additional subject, so will have 4 in Year 13. Everyone who has gone to Cambridge from that school in recent years has had 5A*.

evidence based education at universities has created a whole new layer of academics but no tangible improvements
link please for RCT studies at Universities.

There are certainly none about school governance and accountability which is - in the big scheme of things - FAR more important than the 1% of precious little dears who go to MN favoured Unis

Talkin evidence based education at universities has created a whole new layer of academics but no tangible improvements.

TalkinPeace university places may slump due to reduced funding but there will still be plenty for academic students.
As Molio has said the problem with the new system of sixth form exams is for the lower-mid range students who need something different to top end A levels and fairly useless degree courses.

anybody who thinks that the answer to the AS / A" debate will be solved with University places
has not been to enough HE colleges

University places are going to slump back to 20-25% of the cohort
good thing too
so the exams to 18 will need to meet more needs
a mix of A level and BTEC
but many schools do not have the resources for BTEC
especially when mixed with A level
so it will not meet the needs of those most in need

as the Economist said this week, its about time there was Evidence based decision making in UK education

In fact GoMilou disquisitiones will be able to answer this accurately, but my guess is that 5A is still not the average set of results for a NatSci student at Cambridge. I don't know what percentage of successful applicants go on to achieve 5A but I'm hoping it's still a minority!

GoMilou 5A* is rare, even in those subjects and even in the very best independent and grammar schools, so I think the issue is fairly niche. I can't answer for those schools, obviously, but offering the diet they're suggesting seems curious to me - four AS still in subjects which have already gone linear? And no students able to do four however able and even with funding available? I'm confused. It doesn't seem a sensible way to move ahead, but that's down to the particular school. If your DN is that able and determined to do that many subjects (good luck incidentally, she'll need it), she should find a different school which offers a broader programme.

titchy that's precisely what I meant about only taking three possibly concentrating the mind of the more able students. You can't predict whether Y11s at that sort of school will or won't now look more carefully at admissions requirements. It will certainly be incumbent on all Heads of Sixth to guide the Y11s much more carefully when they're making their choices and not leave it until the summer of Y12. And I have to say that I'm attempting to help a particular Y12 at the moment who ticks every single last box in the disadvantaged book and that Y12 looked very carefully at what he needed in Y11, with no pointers from anyone. He won't be completely alone. The difficulties are more likely to manifest lower down the ability and motivation range.

My son is in L6 at a selective 6th form. He is very academic. Excluding Further Maths, all the students do 4 subjects in L6 and drop one in U6.

But who will fund all these extra foundation years? Plenty of places offer science/engineering foundation years already but funding is a big problem.
disquis I would suggest online part time foundation courses with materials online, lectures by videos and twice a week tutorials administered and examined by local HE establishment to student. The rest of the time they could work to earn some money. It would cost but less than a full time course and living expenses would n't be required. A lot of courses are being stretched out to 4 years now so some of these should be reduced unless it's a year out in industry or abroad.

Although the real problem here is the difference in resources/ knowledge of different schools disquisitiones and that difference exists already.

Yes, Molio, it exists. And if I take that as the baseline then my understanding is that things are about to get worse because of the new changes.