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Original poster

First entry rules changed to force new GCSEs

37 replies

noblegiraffe · 28/10/2015 13:13

I've just seen that any schools that try to get around their kids being guinea pigs for the the new GCSE by entering early for the old GCSE will be penalised as these results will no longer count as first entry for the league tables.

So any students in Y10 who might have been entered for Maths or English in June of Y10, or November of Y11 will not have those results entered into the league tables at the end of Y11, they will have to sit the new GCSE. Any school that only enters all their kids early for the old GCSE would get 0% headline measure.

I guess this would also have implications for the next phase of GCSEs for schools who do a three year KS4 and enter for some GCSEs in Y10. I expect they won't count either.

OP posts:
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ProfGrammaticus · 02/11/2015 09:36

When you say league tables though, which ones?

There seem to be different ones in the broadsheet papers. Do you mean there are government ones and these are the ones that matter to state schools?

Michaelahpurple · 01/11/2015 09:09

Can someone explain why schools have children taking all their GCSEs a year early? Do they all get straight A*? Because if not, why not take them at the age for which they were designed? Not being argumentative - I just don't understand. Especially with all the concern about the negative impact of being summer born

MrsUltra · 31/10/2015 16:59

Common sense and best interest of child can go out of the window when a school performs to league tables and bottom lines.
Yes, interesting how schools suddenly decided not to bother with retakes, when it was only in the child's interest, rather than the school's. Sad

catslife · 31/10/2015 14:14

in addition to what noblegiraffe has described there are effects on children currently in Y11. We have been informed that there are no "legacy" papers for the current Y11 to resit the current A*-G GCSEs in June 2017. The only resit opportunity will be in November 2016 so current Y11 pupils who don't manage to obtain a C grade in either June 2016 and November 2016 will have to take the new 9-1 GCSE in June 2017.

ScentedJasmine · 31/10/2015 12:41

Functional skills maths level 2 [as someone who has taken it as an adult] is a great option if available.
Also level 1 is at least a good practical qualification which can be applied in day to day living.

ScentedJasmine · 31/10/2015 12:38

If only MaryClary..
It takes a brave school to take the route you ask for.
Common sense and best interest of child can go out of the window when a school performs to league tables and bottom lines.

MaryClary · 31/10/2015 11:35

As a parent of a child who struggles academically, can I insist they are allowed to sit a qualification that is in their best interest, rather than one that counts in the league tables though? Can a child be entered for more than one maths qualification - I'm thinking functional skills alongside GCSE. School are implying that nothing other than GCSE is 'allowed' as it doesn't count.

ragged · 29/10/2015 19:12

Ah, that's quite manageable then. Only math & English need to be in yr11 (I think).

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 29/10/2015 18:22

It might have been good if the piecemeal, idiotic way that the GCSE changes have been introduced had ended with Gove leaving.

What would have been wrong with a single changeover point and some advance notice?

ScentedJasmine · 29/10/2015 18:22

So, even more reason to treat league table results with caution and look more deeply at schools as a parent.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 29/10/2015 18:09

ragged my quote was about maths because it was sent from the Edexcel maths coordinator to maths teachers.

I've just found the DfE guidance and it says:

"The only English and maths qualifications that will count in the 2017 secondary school performance tables will be reformed GCSEs in those subjects or qualifications reformed to meet the same standards and expectations, the Department for Education said today.

This will ensure that there is consistency in terms of exams in these subjects, including linearity (exams at the end of the 2-year course) and limited non-exam assessment.

English language, English literature and maths are the first GCSEs to be reformed. They will be taught for the first time from September 2015, with pupils sitting exams in summer 2017.

The current arrangements for recognising other academic qualifications, such as level 1/level 2 certificates (sometimes known as IGCSEs) will end with the introduction of reformed GCSEs. Level 1/level 2 certificates in English and maths will not be included in the 2017 performance tables (due to be published in January 2018).

Similarly, level 1/level 2 certificates in subjects being reformed for first teaching from September 2016 (including history, geography, languages and the sciences) will not be included in the 2018 performance tables. This follows advice from the regulator about the challenges of including academic qualifications that could potentially be quite different from GCSEs in performance tables for 2017.

... Alongside these changes, the Department for Education confirmed that entries to the current GCSEs in English and maths from 2016 or earlier will not count in performance tables in 2017.

Schools may still enter pupils early for these ‘legacy’ qualifications, but if they do pupils will need to either take the new GCSE in 2017 or progress to a higher level qualification, such as an AS qualification, for their achievements to count in tables.

The exclusion of ‘legacy’ GCSEs from performance tables will apply only to English and maths, reflecting the weight placed on these qualifications in the new Progress 8 measure. As other GCSEs are reformed, we will continue to count achievements in ‘legacy’ GCSEs in all other subjects. This will allow schools to continue curriculum arrangements that allow students to take exams in some subjects - for example, 1 of the 3 separate sciences - before the end of year 11, having been properly prepared to do so."

www.gov.uk/government/news/qualifications-counting-in-future-performance-tables

So not counting early entry will only affect English and Maths, however for other subjects, you can sit GCSE early, but if you sit in 2018, you have to sit the new GCSE. IGCSE won't count.

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blueemerald · 29/10/2015 17:48

I've never been more grateful that I work in an SEN (SEMH) school. I will be entering my current year 10 (low ability even for us) for English iGCSE in November 2016 (at the start of their year 11) with one exam (one modern extract), coursework and speaking and listening rather than two exams with a 19th, 20th and 21st century extract.

ragged · 29/10/2015 17:41

NG: you quoted only for math just now but keep talking about English (& every other subject too?) being treated in same way. But do you have exact same quotes for English & every other single subject "must take end of year 11 to count in progress 8"?

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 29/10/2015 17:11

The clarification we got from the exam board the other day (Edexcel) said

"DfE has confirmed that for the 2017 tables, only a student's first attempt at the new GCSE Mathematics (9-1) will be counted in performance tables.

This means that any results for students in Year 10 who sit examinations for the current GCSE Mathematics (1MA0 or 2MB01) in November 2015 or Summer 2016, or for students in Year 11 who sit in in November 2016, will not be counted in the 2017 tables, nor will such results count as "first entry". Such students would also need to sit the GCSE Mathematics (9-1) or AS Mathematics in Summer 2017 for results to be counted.

This will also apply to Year 10 students who sit the Level 1/Level 2 Certificate in Mathematics in January 2016 or Summer 2016. "

So yes, I think the school whose current Y10 are planning to sit English and Maths this June are going to have to have a rethink, and pretty sharpish. I wonder if they're aware?

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UhtredOfBebbanburg · 29/10/2015 12:00

Scented - our school does alright in the tables. The move to a 2 year KS3 certainly wasn't a strategy to manipulate league tables.

I have a DC at another school where they are planning to introduce a 3 year KS4 and that seems much more manipulative to me, and also possibly not taking the lower attaining kids into consideration. A 2 year KS3 is fine for high attaining kids but I'm not so sure about the rest. My DS didn't consipucuously find the 3 year KS3 there boring or slow moving except in maths.

ScentedJasmine · 29/10/2015 11:58

Apologies, I think I know what I am talking about but probably not quite linking to the general theme of the thread and mebbe keep missing the point Grin.

UhtredOfBebbanburg · 29/10/2015 11:55

They (as in, the school) don't count the AS levels in the stats for KS4. Apart from anything else, the DFE caps the points at GCSE.

The current government love schools manipulating the league tables when it's posh schools doing IGCSE.

I wouldn't be broken hearted if they changed the 6th form now GCSEs are going to be more of a challenge. The rationale for doing it the way they did it seems to be less strong if GCSEs are tougher. But I would be concerned if my DD's year group was caught up in uncertainty above and beyond that created by the DfE already. And keeping art drama and music on the curriculum for everyone for an extra year would be a brilliant thing and would be a little tiny glimmer of sanity for everyone - but that would mean big changes at the school. It's just not set up to teach those subjects to the whole cohort in Y9. Nor DT or computing either.

ScentedJasmine · 29/10/2015 11:49

Mmm... I can see early entry can be abused but depends how used.
Those that are continuing are not doing themselves any favours league table wise so sometimes reasons perhaps not manipulative but because seems right thing to do at that school.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 29/10/2015 11:16

Thinking about it, given the claims it makes about it's attainment at the end of ks4 it must hold them. It's able to make those claims because all the children have sat 2 AS levels by the end of yr 11, which are probably counted in the statistics.

In all likelihood they would have had to change the 6th form anyway since A level general studies and critical thinking are being scrapped.

You'd hope the SLT might have had a plan for something like this anyway. The current government haven't exactly hidden their dislike for early entry and schools manipulating the league tables.

UhtredOfBebbanburg · 29/10/2015 10:49

I'm not certain but I think that in the league tables it is results obtained by the end of Y11 rather than results obtained in the 20xx exam sittings. So for our school when the league tables come out every year, the results of our Y11s were actually obtained a year earlier. That's how it works with other schools that do exams early, right? If a school enters kids for maths in Y10 and further maths in Y11, the results reported for the Y11s include all the early Y10 maths takers together with the ones who took it in Y11. I think. But I don't know for sure. On the school website they display the exam results of the Y10s when they come out.

It probably is the same school, yes.

I have a DC in Y8 - so if they suddenly decide they have to change the way they are doing things it might affect her, since she is about to choose her options and would then ordinarily start KS4 next September. But if they have to hold back the kids in the year above for some or all subjects that could have a significant knock on impact - they don't plan to be teaching the whole cohort English and maths in Y11 (English and maths are both popular subjects, but not everyone does both for AS and some kids do neither).

ScentedJasmine · 29/10/2015 10:19

Oh I get it....
Thanks noblegiraffe.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 29/10/2015 10:13

On their website it talks about their ranking as being based on points achieved 'by the end of yr11' so presumably they hold it for a year and publish when the cohort finish year 11.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 29/10/2015 10:09

That's the thing, for current Y10, any first attempt (which would be the old GCSE) will be disregarded and not count for the league table. Only an attempt at the new GCSE (first sitting June 2017) will count.

OP posts:
HarveySchlumpfenburger · 29/10/2015 10:08

I'm not totally sure, noble. (no idea if uhtred and I are talking about the same school here, but it's unusual enough that we might be).

% of pupils aged 14 or under at the end of ks4 is 2% according to the 2014 league tables, compared to 0% for the rest of the LA.

ScentedJasmine · 29/10/2015 09:53

I thought only first results could be considered. So if you got s D on first attempt [November] that would count in league table even if you got a C or above in the next summer. Can make English/ maths combined results look low if school does early entry for those subjects as 'best' results not included but first results.