starting KS4 in year 9 - pros and cons?

I wouldn't choose a school specifically for a 2 year course, because it seems to me the tide is turning towards 3 year GCSE's - and by the time your dd chooses options all local schools may be running 3 year courses.

The secondary my DDs go to does this. For them it really works - they can ditch the subjects they have no interest in (DT, ICT, Music) and focus on the ones they really care about. The school does not have anyone sit GCSEs early though - instead they do a lot of work on broadening and deepening understanding of the subject. So DD1 is now in Yr10 and has just started the GGCSE history topic of the American West - but in Yr 9 she did a whole segment on suffrage in Europe, WW1 and the Napoleonic war, and was assessed just as it if was for real - she really enjoyed the extra material and learned a lot of useful essay writing technique. The same method is used across all subjects. The school had record GCSE results this year despite a tricky catchment with a lot of deprivation.

I can see how it would be limiting for a young person who has not yet made up their mind about what direction to choose though, there are definite downsides.

Ours can change at end of yr9 & yr10 so the inflexibility of your system is bad in my mind.

Then again, the whole set up may well change as soon as 2 yrs time. I would use other criteria to decide what school.

But it doesn't really matter whether you do Spanish or French, does it?

They're both the same from an options point of view.

I think it's a good idea as it gives them more time on the subjects they prefer/are better at, and as long as there is not too much choice anyway.

"A lot of those DCs seem to change their options at the end of yr 9, having changed their minds about subjects, which seems to defeat the object, really?"

This has been made practically impossible at DS's school- you can make a case, but you have to convince the head teacher, and as far as I know, only a couple of people have managed it so far!

I think ds3's (fingers crossed) school will be doing GCSE's over three years for a different reason than ds2's grammar. They have a very different approach to teaching/learning & will appreciate the extra time to explore topics in different ways. They already have an extended school day for this reason.

It's fine for ds2 & ds3 who already have strong preferences in subjects, but can see it's harder for those who are unsure.

Phew!

Devilish - I know it was aimed at the government don't worry.

In terms of why a grammar would do this - presumably to up the results. It's a change that seems to have started with the local grammars & is now extending to the other schools. When it was announced the HT made a point of saying another nearby grammar was doing it. They've also decreased the number of GCSE's taken for ds2's year from 11 to 10 (although some maths whizz kids may take further maths as well I assume) - they said this was due to the increased demands of the new exams.

Oh iguana - the eye roll was aimed at the government, not the teachers!

I work with DCs across a range of local secondaries - one of which has a three-year KS4 model.
A lot of those DCs seem to change their options at the end of yr 9, having changed their minds about subjects, which seems to defeat the object, really?

I agree with Bertrand, it probably depends on your dc whether it will be of benefit or not. I've got a dd with broad interests who could happily go down a scienc-y route, languages/humanities or tech/practical stuff. The only subject she'd like to give up is Welsh which is core so she'll have to do two GCSEs in it regardless

He did say the teachers don't actually know what they're meant to be teaching yet :rolls eyes: - but he's in the first cohort of all new GCSE's.. He's right. The specs have not been confirmed yet. Teachers are having to go by the drafts.

Grammar schools have the same reason as every other school to have a 3 year course: it will be harder to get the highest grades, by which the school, the pupils and the teachers are measured, so they will need more time to get there. There is also nothing stopping them teaching above GCSE requirements.

Not sure why a grammar school would do this- but I'm not a fan of doing loads of GCSEs. I would have thought broadening the education in years 8 and 9 would be better for high attaining children rather than narrowing it, surely?

At ds's secondary modern they have chosen options early for a while- one of the big difficulties low and middle attainers have is not so much the actual content they have to learn for exams, but the technique, interpretation and language skills required. For example, our history results are below where they should be because kids tend to see key words in the question and just "download" everything they know about it. So they can have excellent subject knowledge but still have crap results. The extra year has made a significant difference to the achievement particularly of our low attainers.

( this is a compulsory subject though)

we started it in my subject ( to take exam in year ten) last year - was a huge success.
Before that we tootled through the course over three years - same results

Oh ds2's school allows free choice - so he is doing music and drama - I know not many schools allow that. It would have been more of a problem if he'd had restricted choices.

I suspect it will soon become the norm though - to give the extra time needed for the new GCSE's.

More & more schools are doing this. Partly in response to the new harder GCSE's. Ds2's grammar does it & our first choice school for ds3 does it. Neither take exams early.

It's working well for ds2 (currently in year 9) - he's much more focussed now he's been able to drop the subjects he doesn't like. He did say the teachers don't actually know what they're meant to be teaching yet :rolls eyes: - but he's in the first cohort of all new GCSE's.

You're right about why they do it, to get better results.

I personally think a big issue is that now in year 8 is very early to choose. In the school where I teach, expressive arts are done on a rotation, so at this stage of year 8 a student might have done just a term of music or art or drama - not subjects covered in detail maybe at primary. How can they seriously choose? Tech might be a similar situation - DS2 is in yr 8 and has only done textiles, for example,, for a term last year.

I think we specialise too early in this country (and I speak as someone who specialised very early and thoroughly in my school career). This just makes it even worse.

Pros are that they tend to be doing subjects they like (or at least have dropped the ones they don't) for an additional year, so there is more curriculum time devoted to the examined subjects.

Cons are they are still quite young to choose sometimes (although there is less of a choice really nowadays anyway) and of course the curriculum is narrowed earlier.

Local parents mention many benefits (in their minds) to taking a few GCSEs early. They tell me that they think it takes the mystique out & much pressure off. They say this is marvellous compared to the system they went thru (O-levels all-or-nothing end of yr11, I guess).

Thing is, what her local schools are doing now (OP has a kid in yr6, so is touring schools?) may totally change in 2-4 yrs time, depending what measurement stick schools are being held up against. I gather that Progress 8 means that schools are likely to go for fewer good grades rather than may almost-as-good grades in future. So it Progress8 means pressure to go back to the ALL OR NOTHING system in May-June of yr11.

DS's school is more traditional, they chose at end of yr9 with almost all exams at end of yr11. It meant that his subject range dramatically narrowed compared to DD, who will complete 12 subjects in yrs9-11.

My ds2 is in yr nine and started hos gcse options, I thought he was very young to be choosing to drop subjects, he was 12! But they will not be taking exams early. It's early days in yr nine so far but it seems to be going Ok. Ds2 has asc and being able to drop some subjects is probably beneficial for him, he is more motivated as he is mainly doing subjects he enjoys.

Tbh it's all new anyway as they are going to be the first year to take the new gcse in all subjects, we just got his half termly report thing which shows expected grade, etc as well as giving them a score for behaviour and attitude for learning...

I wouldn't be happy if he was taking exams early, he is summer born and with his asc already at a disadvantage and there is no benefit to taking gcses early.