Should Alevel teachers have a degree in the subject?

And therein lies the problem noblegiraffe. Graduates with good degrees from good universities rarely gravitate toward teaching.

I think we're very fortunate that at our DC's selective school the teachers are highly qualified with degrees from good universities.

It's a very different story at other local schools.

I tell my students (high achieving school) my grades (if they ask) and they ask me what on earth I'm doing working as a teacher!

I can see why you'd lack much respect for a teacher who only managed a C at Maths A Level, if they were teaching it.

Our DC is at a selective school and the majority of the sixth form would be on target to get much higher grades than that.

It would be hard for you average teenager to have much academic respect for a teacher who wasn't able to get A Level grades anywhere near the ones they were able to get.

Back in the 70s my school published a list of all staff and where they had studied. OK, it didn't explicitly state that they had degrees (or diplomas for art, music, domestic science and PE) in the subjects they were teaching, but we knew from talking to them that this was the case. I suppose there were fewer options for female graduates then so most of them had little choice but to go into teaching.

It was much the same at my husband's school, though, from what he's told me.

Both direct grant schools - kind of hybrid between independent and grammar schools.

My A-level maths teacher had a physics degree and admitted to us that he had got a C in his own maths A-Level. He was a pretty poor teacher and telling us he had got a worse grade than several of us aspired to did nothing to increase our respect for him. I ended up with a private tutor and an A.
Having done physics up to the 2nd year of my degree I actually now think that a full physics degree probably was more than adequate to teach a-level maths (they didn't offer further maths) but coupled with poor teaching it seriously reduced our confidence in him.

My DD's last year's English teacher came top of the country, with five others, in English Literature GCSE. She was a terrific English teacher (she also had an English degree).

I don't agree nohopeformen . She didn't just do badly in one exam. It was quite heavy on coursework so she did consistently poorly over the two years of the GCSE syllabus, and only struggling to a grade C at the end of it all.

She somehow got into a university to study Media on the back of two low grade A Levels in General Studies and Communication Studies, and some sort of diploma in Photography.

In no way do I think that background equips her to now teach A Level English and I would not want her teaching my DCs.

Pandylion I don't think your example proves that at all. The person didn't do well in one exam as a teenager, them gained sufficient credits at university level to teach the subject. That demonstrates greater ability than an O level result.
I didn't study my teaching subject at all at school - that doesn't mean I was crap at it. My degree and postgrad suggest otherwise.

Reading this thread (and other similar ones previously) makes me want to ask people who aren't teachers why they aren't, or if there is anything that would make them become one?

I don't because I don't have the patience, I'd find marking tedious and even when I was at school I didn't suffer fools gladly so I doubt I'd cope with a roomful of bored schoolchildren. And yes, I'm a physicist, so it would be a challenge even for someone who was a teacher by vocation.

I was lucky at school to have maths and physics teachers who were degree-level and enthusiastic in their subjects. It makes such a difference even to those of us who actually want to study the subjects. Though even after three physics degrees and a large dollop of maths in my working life, I'd still be lost if someone wanted me to explain vector spaces... (A level further maths when I were a lass, don't know if they are in the current syllabus)

DS is in Y12, and assures me one of his physics teachers knows what they're doing.

I'm sure that teacher is grateful for your son's assessment of their teaching practise!

"When I left teaching and started applying for jobs I found jobs I couldn't apply for because I didn't have the right qualifications even though I had been teaching those qualifications"

Er, yes charis I think that amply demonstrates that in the private sector they're a lot more picky about qualifications than in the teaching sector, which is what we're discussing.

A family friend only got a C for English Literature & Language GCSE, so wasn't allowed to take either for A Level. They somehow got into university to do Media Studies and 6 years down the line she's now teaching English up to A Level!

I think this demonstrates that too often the teaching sector just has to make do with what they can get, sadly.

Literature analysis, for one thing, is subjective. Algebra, not so much!

This is why I love maths so much. I got asked to tutor someone for their English GCSE. It took me about four seconds of looking at a mark scheme for a piece of creative writing where the grade descriptors involved an overall impression of whether the use of metaphors felt natural or forced to convince me to stick to x = 2 is correct for 1 mark.

My first degree is physics and I do teach other science A levels but I think unless someone has really worked hard there is a limit on how far beyond your own area you should stray. I'll happily teach mechanics and most pure maths because I've done plenty of them during my degree but I wouldn't venture too far into the realms of further maths because it gets too scary. I know I wouldn't do a very good job without so much extra work it wouldn't be worth it for the money.

Proper literature analysis requires textual evidence for everything, noble. It's full of logic and justification!

Doing it, yes. Teaching it, no.

Literature analysis, for one thing, is subjective. Algebra, not so much!

Literature requires discussion, thought, exchange of ideas, essay writing. Algebra requires exposition, querying, clarification then exercises which have a correct answer.

I have a level 2 in Maths, no GCSE.
Unfortunately, I left teaching because I was expected to cover Advanced Maths for nearly the full year.
I wasn't qualified to teach many of the subjects and levels I was asked to.
It's disgusting tbh.
Yes, a teacher who is able doesn't necessarily need a degree in the subject but they shouldn't be made to teach a subject they have little or no knowledge about, unless of course they are covering for a day.

From a pupil's perspective it won't feel the same at all. But from a teacher's perspective (were the same person equally skilled as a teacher of mathematics and as a teacher of literature and language) it might.

That doesn't mean that teaching algebra is like teaching text analysis!

I always find algebra very useful when analysing texts (not joking)!

How does that work?

I always find algebra very useful when analysing texts (not joking)!

bobo maths is about constructing arguments, sure (it's much like philosophy in that way) but teaching simplifying fractions is nothing like teaching kids to compare Curley's wife and a puppy.

The kids he taught. Different years, different kids. There's a table. His school told him.

No idea about where the table comes from, sorry. he's asleep or I'd ask him.

He actually got the best results in the country

Do you mean when he sat the exam, or the kids he taught?

How do you know if you get the best results in the country? (Not something I've ever had cause to find out, clearly).

noblegiraffe - IMVHO there are a lot of similarities between good teaching of maths and good teaching of language and literature. Numerical reasoning and verbal reasoning are really very similar at heart.

My dh teaches maths/English/geography/RS/philosophy - all at A level. He actually got the best results in the country for all of those subjects in different years.

His degree is in Philosophy.

There is a massive cross over between engineering and physics. I've worked with many fantastic physics teachers with degrees in engineering. It is entirely possible bobo that the teacher in question wouldn't have been any good even if they were teaching engineering.

I think the ideal situation is someone who is a talented teacher teaching a subject they have a degree in (or very close to their subject). There are definitely great teachers who have worked hard to get their subject knowledge up to a high enough standard who are better than some teachers with degrees in the right subject who can't teach it.