Eton

But MidLife a boy who was clearly never going to make the grade wouldn't have got through the yr6 pre-test, so he would have no opportunity to sit CE in yr8 for that particular school.

All the prep schools will get their boys to do mocks (and most do mock mocks too). If a boy doesn't make the grades at his mocks, their headmaster should be ringing alarm bells with Eton at that time - and look for an alternative school then.

If he scuffs his CE exams as he was unwell or had is right arm in plaster etc, then his headmaster would then be able to provide his mock papers as evidence that he was otherwise on track.

If a headmaster presents a boy for CE who was clearly never going to make the grade, I suspect his chances of getting further boys into Eton would be severely jeopardised....

I have heard a certain member of our royal family had to defer his entry for a year....

Do it! But be low key with DS.
Our DC aced the SPS/Westminster tests - we were happy with the outcome.
DS2 recently came back from staying at Eton for was few days and sai d he would like to board.
Regretting now not having at least given the opportunity.
I think DS2 would have thrived there, but we opted for the same as his bro'.

Need - I'm curious to know what/whose experience your previous opinion was based upon ...

thats good to know its really very rare to fail CE for Eton.... Don't St Pauls & Westminster have a fairly significant number who do? (Significant as in 10 or so rather than most years none.)

Need by the time the boys sit the CE they will already have been offered a place. I think it has been a very long time since a boy has lost a place because they did badly in CE.

The assessment is done at 11, after which boys are either rejected or are offered a place conditional on passing CE when they are 13. There will also be a wait list.

In our day there were about 400 boys taking the assessment, competing for 125 places. They do two assessments per year.

That's pretty much unheard of Need. I think all the people involved in admissions decisions rather pride themselves on only offering conditional places to boys who they are sure will walk CE with a reasonable degree of application.

There are always rumours about the "one boy a year" who fails to make his CE grade. It would be very bad news for the school preparing him because it shouldn't happen.

So a conditional place essentially means "a place".

Ah! Maybe I was thinking of Harrow regarding two pre tests. Embarrassed now!

Question, how many boys roughly get as far as sitting the CE for Eton but are not offered a place?

If you take the attitude that something is so hard that it's better not to even try it because you will almost certainly fail, then you are most certainly not Eton material!

The admissions section of the Eton website couldn't be clearer. Do the research, watch the video, ring the admissions staff and ask questions. A clever all rounder should give it a go. I think maturity counts for a lot, leadership skills, having a relatively easy going nature, having a go at everything. "Stunningly bright boys" could be rubbish team players, one dimensional, unlikely to thrive in what is a super busy environment and one where the boy needs to hit the ground running and be super organised from the start. They want boys who will make the most of the opportunities - not just decline verbs and practice calculus in their spare time.....!

Harrow has introduced the ISEB pre test in year 6 and those that pass can then do the "Harrow" pre test in year 7. In fact many schools have introduced a pre test (where before they didn't have one) - Charterhouse and Radley to name two.

Honestly, go for it - what have you to lose?

Entrance (so I am told) has become a total crapshoot. Many many stunningly bright boys do not get in.

Needanadult ...

I second everything Dapplegrey said.

There may indeed be plenty of parents muttering post-pre-test expletives under their breath (or furiously beating down their prep HM's door ...) but that might be because they made assumptions.

And of course some stunningly bright children didn't get in. Perhaps they rabbit-headlit the interview? Or prompted caution or meh-ness in their HM's Report? Or didn't give the impression that they would thrive there?

It's quite wrong to suggest a clever all rounder shouldn't give it a try ...

Needanadult - as far as I know there is only one pre test, plus interview and head's report from previous school.
I really don't think a "touch of genius" is required - Eton wants intelligent boys who will contribute to the school but they don't have to be geniuses. (Though there are some outstandingly clever boys, and fine musicians and rowers etc).

Eton has changed so much - once upon a time it was mostly posh English boys. Now every aspirational parent in the world wants it.... Entrance (so I am told) has become a total crapshoot. Many many stunningly bright boys do not get in. Entrance requirements have been increased, and nowadays there are two or three pre tests! I'd say DC needs to be very bright overall and have something he really excels in to demonstrate a possible touch of genius. Plus the school culture is sporty and favours natural born leaders, so that too. I think unless you can really say he is stunning at something then I'd not bother.....

Winchester - ha! Even harder to get in to!

Try Charterhouse?

My understanding is that the computer test is user specific - it gets progressively harder depending on cumulative performance. Essentially it will break everyone by the end so your DS will always feel deflated as he should reach a level that he's challenged by.

But the admissions department reject a lot of boys who perform well in the test - Eton requires more than a good cognitive ability score.

From my DS's experience, I would strongly recommend not tutoring. If your DS needs tutoring to get in, he won't thrive there - especially if he's on the timid side.

Yes, I would concur with the point that your DS would need to be familiar with the format of computer based VR/NVR tests. If you watch this film from the website, it gives an idea of what the test is like.

I would also add that maths is very important, so if his maths is weak you may want to top that up with a bit of extra coaching.

It's an interesting point tippi.

Asking a boy in his first term now he would definitely say nothing particular required for the pre-test he took three years ago. On the other hand a fair proportion of boys taking it would have undertaken the preparation you suggest in order to get into their prep schools. So would be reasonably familiar with that kind of thing anyway. But I've never taken the test and no boy I know can ever give chapter and verse on what they were required to do!

BTW when you say "more successful" do you mean scoring highly in the computerised test or actually getting in?

OP contrary to what the school itself says and what others have suggested above, it is important to prepare for the pre-test. My observation of many boys who have taken the test is that those who have lots of practice with reasoning tests (verbal and non-verbal) are more successful with the Eton test. As your son's school might not prepare boys for 11+, it will be important for him to do lots of puzzle-solving tests on his own. There are lots of web-based tests some free and some requiring a monthly or annual fee and they tend to be fun. While the test is intended to judge raw ability and "potential", boys who have done a lot of puzzle/VR/NVR practice will all other things being equal -- do better on the test than those who have not had similar practice.
Good luck!

”I know quite a few OEs and I've got to say they're not exactly all of them the sharpest tools in the box. They're confident, charming, at ease, blah blah, but certainly not my cleverest friends, by a long chalk.”

Rather like someone meeting up with Boris Johnson for the first time, I guess. But hey, don’t be fooled is all I can say.

”And appalling handwriting, but hopefully he's getting better.”

If he’s anything like my DS at 8 years old, it’s quite unlikely the handwriting will get any better. I still struggle desperately even now, 14 years later, to read DS’s written notes to me. I’ve always wondered how throughout the years his teachers and especially examiners marking his scripts could read what he’s written. Quite obviously they could - but maybe with a lot of patience - as he seems to get top marks in those scripts each time. I call atrocious handwriting a ‘doctor’s handwriting’ and true to form, DS is more than half way to becoming a doctor. So don’t despair, your DS may be having much more under his bonnet than you can ever imagine.

Thanks Indrid! I hope everyone else does too, brief though it is.

I wouldn't let quite shy be an issue for an 8 year old, lots of children that age are quite shy rather than irritatingly precocious. Unless he's crippled by shyness, he should grow in confidence at the right school and, as you say, Eton, or any good secondary school, may well be the making of him. My dd was a mouse before moving to her current school but her growing maturity and its ethos have transformed her.

No offence taken riverside - very best of luck to your DS if you decide to go down the Eton route.
I would highly recommend that you do - that school was the making of my ds.

Hope you have a lovely weekend Gruach!