German expat questions value for money of top English private schools

Come on bonsoir.

Any half way intelligent and engaged parent evaluates their DC's education regularly.

Perhaps H. Holle is neither ?

Bonsoir: If you look at the IB results from Sevenoaks, they are pretty good by anyone's standards. And most would argue that the IB offers as broad - if not a broader -education than the German abitur. So not convinced that he has any grounds to criticise the academic standards..(no association with Sevenoaks btw).
I assume his offspring spent the first 13 years of their life at home and four out of 12 months of the year at home while boarding. So if they now lack social range and an appreciation of the value of money perhaps Herr Holle should question his own parenting.
Beginning to feel a bit sorry for his kids. Must be really embarrassing for them. Man clearly lacks judgement in giving this kind of half baked spinnable interview to the press. Bet he's regretting it now. Do you think he gave them those photos?

What a very strange article. I'm not quite sure what Mr Holle wants because he seems to contradict himself. I think his message might be better received if he had opted out of boarding part-way through the twins' education instead of bad-mouthing it at the end of Y13.
Also, I'm not quite sure why we are supposed to extrapolate from one family's experience to cover all education across the whole of Britain and Germany.

It must have become very obvious to H. Holle whilst his DC were at The Hall that he wasn't getting what he wanted.

So why carry on in the sane vein?

I thought this guy was meant to be bright?

What a ridiculous article. Who knew that schools that charge11k a term would be dominated by the wealthy?

You've gotta love the guy's thought process.

He didn't like the lack of 'diversity' at The Hall, so from there he chose boarding at Sevenoaks .

Does he expect anyone to take this seriously?

I think he's missing the point. A lot of the value of independent schools (for those who value them) is precisely because they have a narrow social base. Your DC have a better chance of being chums with the future PM, judges, City CEOs etc, and that will pay dividends after school years.

TWF, its easier than that. He simply sends them to the German School in Kingston where they will meet German speaking children from a range of backgrounds.

UptheRhine, I agree and I think DD may have thought much the same if she had spent a week at Tiffin. There is a certain amount of movement between the very selective state and private schools in London at sixth form, helped by the fact that catchments are dropped and bursaries are available. Depending on what is important to you, private schools appear to offer extra, but equally many parents are relieved when they can stop paying.

Poor Herr Holle. Its not clear what he thinks he is paying for. Social diversity in a financially selective institution seems a big ask.

I shouldn't get excited granola. He's not exactly joining your crusade for a reduction of fees/luxury.

He has had ample opportunity to send his DC to less expensive private schools (not sure why his DC needed to board), or state schools (he has a number of super selective state schools within striking distance)...but he wants his DC to attend 'the best'.

And he rates his education in Germany more highly than any British school. Well that's his opinion. And he's entitled to it. Funnily enough it wasn't enough to send him home to live in Germany .

Drop out rate from German universities is also much higher than in UK. Huge first year classes. Many students repeat years. Some can take 10 years to graduate!

TWF I think the point here is that a wealthy banker is saying these schools are not vfm for a number of reasons, including their increasing exclusivity and pathetic record on bursaries, making for communities that fail to teach the value OF money. It's a useful perspective.

As you will understand, the nouveau poor are delighted to have support in this area from the filthy rich.

Shock news just in.

British boarding schools cater for wealthy families.

Read all about it!

Has he only just noticed that the English Boy' 'Public School system is specifically designed to exclude 95% of the population, and once you are in them, ensure the boys are then kept well away from said excluded 95% of the population?

I would just add that comparing a Gymnasium to a UK independent school is the equivalent of comparing a selective UK grammar school to a UK independent school. I imagine many UK parents with a free place at eg Tiffin, Judd, Skinners, etc might think long and hard about how much extra they would get for their money in the independent sector. But in Germany as in UK the majority of children do not go to Gymnasiums. The difference is that in UK a good comprehensive offers a first class academic education to all students. The three tier system in Germany does not.
The more I think about it, the odder this article is. If Herr Holle was so concerned about ensuring his kids had a diverse set of friends and acquaintances why did he not send them to local London schools? Why did he not ensure they got jobs during the holidays? Why did he not invite the children of his worker friends from Germany to spend holidays in London with his kids?
Just strikes me as a pretty shallow piece of journalism.

Bonsoir, my understanding was that the British system already allowed for a greater degree of adjustment for, effectively, school advantage, than the French or German. Applications for competitive courses at British Universities are considered on an individual basis. Pupils at top performing schools may be expected to get a long string of A*s at GCSE, and indeed may then still be rejected. The bar will be lower for pupils coming from poorly performing schools, and indeed Universities often offer access courses to support applications from able students from poor schools.

I may be wrong but my understanding was that in France (and from what our exchange said, in Germany) if you get the grades, you get the place despite the fact that there are huge variations in teaching/aspiration in schools across the country.

Bonsoir, I don't think that is what I said. The German system struck them a bit like the French, though the German schools they experienced were a higher standard with a much more affluent catchment. (Not surprising as they were effectively some of the best state schools in Germany whilst the French school DD had an exchange with was in the back end of beyond, and the French girl we had staying with us had no English at all) As I said above, despite this the schools came across as rigid with less going on. One thing good English private schools seem to do very well is to encourage pupils to take an intellectual interest and to question.

In terms of language we have come across French children with good English but they have been without exception from Paris with banker fathers. DD has spent time in other parts of France (mainly bienvenue chez les ch'tis) and has been surprised that even older teenagers at lycees have virtually no English, and indeed very little interest in learning English. Ditto in Germany. Her host was at a very good school had an international lawyer father and spoke near perfect English. However during her stay DD attended a local sports club and not one teenager spoke any English. (I was a bit surprised, but she is clear that all conversations happened in German as after 2 years of a three year GCSE course her German was better than their English.)

UptheRhines comments are interesting. I knew Germans often choose to come to the UK, however only know an Italian boy who was likely to have to repeat a year because he failed one subject, but came to the Uk instead and has done exceptionally well with lots of A*s at both GCSE and A level. DD is dyslexic which is not too big a problem in the UK, but probably would be elsewhere. Perhaps Herr Holle is wrong and a more structured approach to learning suits some children whereas a more inquisitive approach suits others.

Please no legislation, Bonsoir, what is really important about independent schools is that they should remain independent.

Unfortunately, like so many other institutions which should know better, they have been bending over backwards to please bankers. Now that Mr Holle is telling them that he, for one, is not impressed, there is suddenly real cause for hope that the stupid rush to luxury will cease.

But the heads will have to be brave enough to ignore Tatler and the Good Schools Guide who attach more importance to fripperies and snob value than sensible German bankers apparently do.

I don't understand Bonsoir, how would that work?

Oh, now, that would be interesting...