Right. Tell me what to do here- key words- 11+, g&t, University, widening access......

Yes, I think even the unpleasant answers were genuine.

Virtually everyone felt your son should go. Virtually everyone felt your reluctance made you arrogant or in danger of appearing so.

bertrand if you want a general discussion then start one.

But when you pose what purports to be a genuine question about you son ( mentioning yourself, your DH and your DD into the bargain) don't be surprised when people give genuine answers about your family as opposed to entering into a 'debate'.

I mean, seriously ...

I very quickly took the decision not to label anything.

That way, anything unlabled in lost property could legitimately be ours!

Glad I'm in good company then :)

On a practical note Kent is campus based collegiate university. It will help him start thinking about what sort of university enviroment might suit him. Some people don't like being in a campus, even one that is a relatively short walk from the centre of the city. Some people won't like a collegiate university perferring to be more subject related than college based. Even if you are fairly certain that your DS will go to university it may start him thinking about what sort of university he wants to go to. Discussing that with his peers may help all of them with their thought processes.

I may have missed it but OP has your DS actually visited a university at all yet?

I ask because at the age your DS is students can get very definite but highly inaccurate views of what something they have never experienced is like.

At a similar age my DD was absolutely certain that she could never ever work in an office. Fortunately I was able to take her on a business trip with me. She came away from that with totally different views of what working in an office can be like.

Not major in the grand scheme of things but a useful addition to her education.

Your DS may have a view of what going to university is like. A trip like this can give your DS a different perspective. If you do decide to take him yourself will you just drop him off and leave him to experience the trip in the same way as the other students from his school. I think this would be important.

Something else which is a useful if salutary experience is to not be the cleverest person in the room. It is very easy for a group of students who are all top set for everything to get a bit of 'swelled head'. Discovering that there are many people who are just as clever if not cleverer can be a good thing.

understood, yellowcurtains!

Another Biro bodger here. I started off lovingly sewing on woven nametapes, but then after a few years... couldn't be arsed. Speaks volumes about my parenting!

Brenda, I only made that suggestion because I 'know' the OP, I would not blithely suggest that to other posters in a similar situation. (Know from MN not in rl)

We don't even label our kids' stuff. Hence DD2 has been wearing one shoe that is not hers for at least 2 months (it's obvious it's not hers if you look closely - it almost matches...but doesn't quite. And is half a size bigger). We did tell her to look at people's feet and work out who has her missing shoe - but in fact, it could be someone at her drama or dance classes, so we will likely never know. And she will continue to wear odd shoes till the end of term.

Why molio? Some schools are very prescriptive about labelling belongings. As my parents had both boarded, we all had woven name tapes as a given, but no-one else did. At my children's prep there are all kinds of labels in clothing (said by someone that seems to spend far too many hours searching the lost property box for missing items )

Molio continuing the biro diversion, I use permanent black marker pen, I had never thought of what my laziness with labelling could imply

I understand the OP's position regarding the school. My dd is at a comprehensive school and it is frustrating knowing that the lessons are by and large too slow for her. I'm not being poncey, my ds was at the same school and it was generally fine for him because the cohort seemed to be much better so the less able ones didn't overwhelm the class. It's all very well for posters to tell someone to put their hand in their pocket and pay for another school - but £15K or so a year is not small change.

However, regarding the university trip - why not? As someone said, the school has to pick realistic candidates not just "deprived" dcs per se. I should like to think that dd's school has not a clue what my level of education or income is and I certainly wouldn't like to think she is being denied opportunities cos I can talk proper.

Bertrand is it not possible that school choose your DS to go because UKC run a course he might be interested in?
I dont think they offer medicine, or midwifery or a paramedic degree least they didn't when I was there so maybe those who have ambitions to pursue any of those careers will be taken to alternative universities at a later date?

Off topic but I'm really worried about the Biro thing yellowcurtains :(

I assume it's limited to ten at the preference of the University, not the school - or else the agency that organises these trips (Green Apples and the like...).

I'd mainly be thinking it's always nice to go on a trip, and you never know what you might get out of it. DD went on a residential to the university her father actually went to, with a group of year 12s last year - she still saw it from a different perspective than she'd get from him telling her what it's like, and also had a good time (think Giles telling Nick about Father telling him about the navy before he got to Dartmouth ).

I don't think you're coming from a place of arrogance, but doing/saying anything about it would risk making you sound like it, I fear. Also, since going to SM is potentially quite a dent to where a child perceives himself, and might make that child feel that universities are going to view him less favourably, I think the trip is of at least as much value for a middle-class child as another.

Other than the exact amount of time it takes to run, at 7.37 am, from a flat I lived in briefly to Rochester train station, I know very little about Kent. Everything about its education system I have learnt on MN.

So I have no real idea how recogniseable this particular school is here. But I imagine more local posters and non posters might be able to identify it. Have to say if I were another parent with a child there I would be thoroughly, thoroughly pissed off to find a governor constantly telling the world how rubbish I am and what shitty chances of success my child has. All the while pointing out how different their own family is and, by implication, how brilliantly the school will be kicked into shape now they're on the team.

But it's an interesting question - because I'm sometimes guilty of the OP's kind of thinking myself. I have consistently failed to apply for opportunities aimed at a group which I undeniably belong to - because I don't think the criteria apply to me. It's done me no good at all.

I don 't want to put words into Bertrand's mouth Whattodomum but I have the impression that she very much values the teachers there and what they are trying to do. However as you say having an outlier (whether by aptitude or aspirations) does have the consequence for her of more involvement and intervention in her DS's education. The jury is out whether her DS will reach his potential and develop his own selfmotivation in that system. I think most of us who could afford to pay for a good school in that situation would have but maybe Bertrand's DS will compensate academic attainement with other advantages from being in a 'fish out of water' situation.

Bertandif the school know y so well, and we don't, why in God's name did you start a thread ?

I would have reached for my chequebook and paid for an education by now.

I don't want to "gang up" on you OP. But having read a lot of these threads, I think yellowcurtains is onto something here.

I know I am going off topic, and I don't mean to score points, but it's clear that you are not comfortable with your DS's school. You are not at ease, and you do not trust that everything is fine and will be fine. This has to be the most damaging aspect of the situation for your son, more than his school being a "secondary modern," etc. The fact that he will be picking up that you don't like things and don't think they are good enough will sour his school experience. These are important years that you and he will never get back. He will be better off getting stuck in and working hard. Hard to do if you are holding yourself aloof not sure that you really respect and believe in the institution you are in. It's hard to flourish when you are disengaged on some level.

If you can afford it, change his school. Get on with something you can get behind and support. I know you think you are supporting, but looking from the outside, I am not so sure. It looks more like constant judgement and nitpicking.

MN what possible point could anyone score?

MN isn't a game. There aren't winners losers. Nor do we need a self appointed umpire thanks.

I asked because if Kent is on the child's hit list, then I can't think of any possible reason not to go.