Right. Tell me what to do here- key words- 11+, g&t, University, widening access......

Bertrand I think you are very very wrong about high ability children doing well in sub optimal environments.

I visit them. All the time. They quite simply don't get the education, grades, advice/support they would elsewhere. Even when their parents are terribly clever and assume they will.

So Bertrand do you think your DS will do as well without the extra efforts that you have put into monitoring his education plus your regular interventions (as deduced from your MN activity)? Could you step back and trust the school to get your DS (with his own self motivation) to his potential GCSE levels?
BTW the inference from what you are saying is that the SM system works well for fulfilling the potential of MC or well supported DCs.

Yes I know, I agree. Just wondering how OP's kid is different despite the teaching etc.

titchy
But is that because
(a) the schools do not have the teaching resources to push the kids to their potential
(b) the kids are actually thick
(c) averages are very misleading and can hide the high performance of the minority of bright pupils

But she's arguing that her high achieving child WILL get As simply because - at least I think she is. But he's no different to the other high achievers that, for whatever reason didn't make the cut for grammar, and those kids seem to get Bs. Those same high achievers at grammars get As so being at a secondary modern DOES affect grades.

sunshield
The OP lives in one of the only fully grammar areas in the country.
Everywhere else Grammars are either diluted or non existent.
There are lots of god and gonad selective schools of course.

Talkinpeace. you are quite right "non selective schools" in grammar school areas are not always "secondary modern" schools or what the perception of modern is.

However, I don't think that's what you meant....

Non selective does not always mean secondary modern

I think she's saying that the non selective schools are secondary moderns, so they will have a limited number of children of the higher ability range. They will have some, because sometimes the brightest children don't pass the 11+ and other children take longer to click with academic learning, but when they do get it they romp ahead.

Eh? I think you've just gone against your own argument!

Those higher achievers SHOULD be getting better than Bs and if they were at a selective school they would, so clearly the type of school has impacted negatively on their grades.

Or am I totally misunderstanding your point?

The higher achieving children in the secondary schools near me get a B or B- as the average 8 subject grade. Very few get a hatful of A or A* grades. The occasional one does so OP I hope that child is yours in a few years.

I'm not sitting here saying that from some sort of ivory tower by the way. My dcs are at a comprehensive and I'm quite comfortable admitting that if they'd gone private they'd almost certainly end up with slightly higher grades in a few subjects - A*s rather than As.

Oh be realistic of course his grades will be lower! Probably not by much, but they will be. If he's in classes where the target grades are C or higher, the teachers will rightly not spend that much time covering A* stuff as they'll want to consolidate the C and B stuff and give the handful capable of As a chance.

And with only 7% of the cohort being designated as capable of A+ they'll have to be lumped in with the B/C kids. It's ridiculous to not acknowledge that his learning will be affected by that.

If he was in a class where all the kids were targetted A or A they'd be secure in the B/C topics by Christmas year 10 and spend the next year being drilled in A and A topics.

why do you think universities often make lower offers to those from low achieving schools? Cos we think it's fun?

In one sense BS's DS isn't as advantaged as he might be at another school but I'd say that given his high ability, and with interested, educated and aspirational parents at the helm, he may well actually be at an advantage over the local grammar school kids come university entry.

Just read the thread . I don't understand why the OP is complaining about her DS being offered a chance to meet people from Universities. It would be stupid of any school to waste resources on a day out for students, who quite frankly will not get to University. The op says their are only 7% high ability pupils in his year , roughly that = about 10 so not many to choose from.

It will also give your DS a chance to meet and discuss ideas with pupils with similar academic ability from the grammar schools....

Peer to peer dissemination in this context.
Conversation between BR junior and a friend.
"Why are n't you going to this university day BR Jumior?"
Possible answers
"I'd rather do PE" (subtext - not worth bothering about)
or " BR Mum thinks somebody needs it more than I do" (subtext we are different, more advantaged than you)
or some sort of made up excuse.

Difficult which is why it seems much more positive (IM non-expert O for BR junior to go and sound enthusiastic

OP, I know you have to some extent, but it's worth taking on board the comments made on this thread about your ds and his advantages being diluted by his being in a secondary modern school, and to accept the efforts school are making here.

I mean, my ds has the advantages of educated parents, a mc upbringing of museums, theatre, books, music and a filthy car AND he goes to a fee-paying school.

BUT he also has Aspergers Syndrome, a certain level of inflexible thinking that comes with that, and a weak working memory. Am I going to turn down the allowances that school and the exam board will allow him to reach his full potential because he is already privileged? No, of course not.

(Do I care about other children who have the same problems and not the same advantages? Yes, and that's for another thread.)

No I guess I might have made a bit of a leap and assumed you meant better when you do actually mean different. But I'm not sure it was a massive leap, because you do seem to feel he shouldn't be in a secondary modern and that middle class trumps working class. It's a difficult one, to try to keep someone in his position confident without breeding an air of misplaced superiority. I'm not sure how one does it.

Well I didn't mention it.

I'm not keen on disadvantaged kids being bundled together, but that's not because I think the naice middle class kids can improve their experience by disemination or what have you.