Right. Tell me what to do here- key words- 11+, g&t, University, widening access......

Bertrand no parent is more involved than me! I am the epitome of the Tiger Mother .

But really, what can anyone do for GCSEs? My two have just done them. How could I possibly know the curriculum, the mark scheme etc in 10 subjects? All I could do, was offer space to revise and lots of TLC.

No more than my uneducated, working class family members have offered.

The other stuff, extra curriculars, discussions etc I have done. But that is part of my responsibility to my DC in a broader sense. A*s really do need the input of schools IMVHO.

Also, there's a good deal of discussion at the moment as to whether homework is actually useful.

On GCSEs my view would be that it would take far longer for me to 'test' the DC than it would for them to revise a particular subject on their own and that any spare time is better used by them doing something else that they enjoy by way of a break.

You asked about homework, getting DC to school on time, extra curriculars and discussing areas of interest. It actually sounds as if the only place where we're remotely similar is on getting the DC to school. It's very clear indeed that our approach is as different as it could possibly be - but each to their own.

Bertrand you may not like it but what I wrote is absolutely how it is. I don't feel any need whatsoever to be disingenuous either in RL or on here. That is how it is - end of.

Bertrand no parent needs to help with GCSE revision.

I don't really see why this visit could be an issue? Posh* schools do uni visits with their pupils too you know.

*using that word advisedly here

Cross post Bertrand. So in answer to yours:

1. No I don't ever make sure homework is done. I never have done. The DC must mostly do it otherwise it would be flagged up on their reports. Occasionally it is or has been but the world hasn't ground to a halt. Nor do I ever look at their books because I wouldn't know what I was looking at and wouldn't want to interfere on that basis. I'd tell them wrong stuff. Also, the boys' writing is alarmingly messy so I'd just nag about that. This way I don't nag, I don't expend pointless energy, I don't fret and they're happy.

1. The school bus collects them from the kitchen door at 8.15am so I don't have to do much except shout the time at 8.10am. Mind you I had to be very aware and supportive and indeed often interventionist with DD3, who took a dangerous amount of time in the bathroom and always kept the bus waiting. But since June 2011 it's all been calm. I did once take them to school in the snow in Jan or Feb 2012 but that was for my benefit rather than theirs.

1. Sometimes the DC need collecting from the extra curriculars that they've chosen to do or bus fares instead but I've never sought out activities for them.

1. We talk but I certainly don't actively engage the DC on academic subjects of interest. We do all eat together but I think our conversation may be a bit low brow generally - I'd find it very false to actively engage them on 'areas of interest'. If they're interested in different things then they're quite capable of seeking out reading on it or watching stuff about it and I think they'd resent it if I tried to plant books on them. I guess if they wanted my help they'd ask and I'd do whatever I could.

Not read the whole thread but my children go to schools where virtually everyone goes to uni, most to RG, many to Oxbridge. I still took him along on a campus tour his sister was going on when he was in year 10. He was blown away by it, especially the sports facilities - it delivered a great metaphorical kick up the backside in terms of the effort he puts in now.

And this is the nub of the issue.

A child shouldn't need the help of a parent for GCSE revision. I certainly didn't have the help of my parents for O level revision with the exception of french vocab which my mum able to test me on because there was a book with the list of however many french words it was (1000?) even though she didn't have french o level herself (having had to leave school before O levels)

Nobody in my family had ever been to university before when I went, that was also the case of several of my friends and it really wasn't a problem. Not even slightly. The fact that I and my DH went to university in the dark ages is irrelevant to my kids today because things have changed so very very much.

I think you may be vastly overestimating the relative utility premium you offer your DS compared to his friends' parents.

Ah bertrand I see.

You know the parents of the other kids personally. Sorry, I thought you meant you had that info through being a governor. That's why I was .

Word - I think there's a distinction between being involved and supportive. My mum and dad were extremely supportive but they were not involved to the point of micro managing me, or knowing what sort of maths test I had done recently, or knowing what anyone else in my class was doing apart from possibly my closest friends (I suspect the parents of our little group might have spoken about school to each other occasionally).

I do, however, understand what it's like to be a parent of a child who is a bit different than most of their cohort and it's not completely comfortable (this is something that's only arisen this year really for us). I've had to do a lot of stuff (research mainly) that other people get done for them by the school and as a result I have more understanding of the position BR finds herself in than I did previously.

Yes I'm interested to know how you've established that the parents of the remaining seven high achievers aren't supportive Bertrand. I really hope it's not been calculated on size of house, area of town house is in, dirt on car, accent etc. because that would be very shallow. Or perhaps (a kinder interpretation) is that your understanding of 'support' is very different from my idea of support, and is vastly more pro-active and interventionist. Perhaps these parents do actually give support, short of any obvious outward sign of interventionism. It is possible I think....

I think you are putting far too much faith in your choice of footwear.

I also think that there is a fine line between being 'involved' and 'aware' in a way which is positive and being 'involved' and 'aware' in a way which...isn't.

I'm a governor of a school, and I certainly don't get to see teaching day-to-day.

Nor could I hazard a guess as to the exact number of DC in a set who have supportive parents .

And anyway, what do supportive parents look like? I suspect the croc wearers of this world might have assumed my Mum was unsupportive but by God, they'd have been wrong on that front!

To your credit Bertrand, you're vastly more aware and involved than I could ever be, or would even want to be. Were you this involved when your DD was at the grammar or are you much more interventionist because of the type of school?

Agree summerends. The school sounds enviably good. But is the teaching really excellent throughout the school? How do you judge and how do you know what actually goes on in classes? You can't have observed that much, surely, even as governor. What about levels of disruption - are the kids angelic too? Out of curiosity does the school have a sixth form? If so, do you intend your DS to move to the grammar?

But your posts are all about assumptions Bertrand.

You assume your DS will go to university.
You assume he is not in need to widening participation.
You assume he can do as well in his sec mod provided he works hard.
You assume that your child is one of only three in his position.

Your main assumption seems to be that simply being middle class (as defined by you) provides children with some golden ticket.
That may have been true in the past, but the reality today is far more nuanced. Far more difficult.