Right. Tell me what to do here- key words- 11+, g&t, University, widening access......

Bertrand if my DS has been iinvited in year 8 to visit a local outstanding university. I would have been delighted and hoped that he would have got something very valuable out of it. He might have got different things out of it than a child with "less privilege" but it because he wouldn't have got the same thing didn't mean it's not equally of value.
For children from all backgrounds the decision to go to university is perhaps no longer black and white. Many at schools on the other end of the spectrum to your DS's are going because they are expected to go, I'm not convinced all have a have wonderful positve time, I think many choose the wrong subjects and the wrong universities so any experiences any children can have before making their decisions can only be a good thing.

So you start a thread called Right. Tell me what to do here. Everyone (as far as I can see) who posts on the thread tells you to let ds go on the university visit. Some have given really well thought out reasons why they think so. You have your mn answer. It's still up to you to decide what to do.

OP do you actually plan for DS to visit any universities? If so how will you facilitate this.
Also how far are you planning to be 'selfless', if DS gets a place at uni and there's another suitably qualified student from a deprived background, would you think DS should turn down his offer in order that a more deserving applicant might get the place because it would be a more of a life changing experience for the other DC?

If all the pupils identified by school as university material have been offered a place and your DS isn't taking it from another pupil, I would send him. I agree that it's really likely he will go anyway and this won't be a turning point in that way but any trip to university at this age helps them think about what's next. My dd went to many universities in yr 12 to choose which ones to put on application form but she would have loved to have found out a bit more about universities in general and what kinds of courses they offered beforehand. She was also excited to see what the halls of residence looked like and speak to students on various versions of the course she finally chose.

DS on the other hand cba to do much but went to a couple of open days in yr12 with school and realised that if he'd pulled his finger out earlier he would have a much better chance of getting into the course he eventually chose part way through yr 12 which was not at all connected to what he had thought all way through school.

And they have four parents ( 2 steps and 2 birth) with a first degree each and I have 2 post grad qualifications.

The more exposure to university the better I think

I accept your claim that this has got nothing to do with you wanting to underline how different your DS is to everyone else at your school (something you have said many times on many many threads). But surely you can see that this is how it will look - to your DS, to his school fellows and to the staff at the school? And that in itself is surely going to be a problem? My DC was invited to an outreach day at Cambridge for her subject aimed at state school pupils. I went to cambridge, so the idea of cambridge isn't 'alien' to her, it seems if not normal then at least not an impossible dream for state school pupils (I was educated at a state school which by any measure is not as 'good' as the state school she is at). She still went on the outreach day. Because she was invited, and it applied to her. She is a state school pupil, it was a day for state school pupils. Your DS has been invited to a day for kids from his school (and others?) who are good at a particular subject. He goes to that school, he is good at that subject, the day is aimed at HIM. He should go.

Bertrand I'm genuinely curious, as I suspect so are others, as to why you regularly name change and then make yourself very identifiable by your various postings. Surely the pint of name changing is to protect your identity? Or am I missing something here?

He's only in year 9! This is exactly when school groups should be visiting universities. Surely you can understand that things don't always work out as planned. Look at the 11 plus result!
Do you know the background of every other participant on the trip?

Seriously Bertrand you're making far too many assumptions about your own son and the other DC picked to go on the outing.

OK, the key Q here is, are numbers on the trip limited?

You need to call the school and ask.

Because your premise is that by DS going on a trip which will be mildly beneficial to him (even if he prefers PE), he is depriving someone else of a trip which may be hugely beneficial to them.

If that premise is false, just send him. As others have said, he'll get something out of it out one way or another.

"So your saying my child will get as much out of the trip as a child without privileges?"
Now you really are coming over as arrogant and superior if I made this kind of comment the anti independent ed brigade would be firing of comments left right and centre.
He may not get exactly the same thing out of it as his peers but he might get other things out of it that are equally valid. That's assuming of course that he doesn't go with an arrogant superior attitude but instead an open enquiring mind and listens carefully to what is said.
If my DS2 had had a similar opportunity I would have happily let him go and at his school all go to top universities. In fact I'm rather irritated that one top university has special days to encourage state educated children to consider a subject DS is interested in and he's not allowed to go. He too has a right to decide if this is the right subject for him regardless of his educational background.

The thing is, it doesn't have to be 'life changing' to be useful.
Your son could go on this and find it inspires him. Or not. Another child could go and find he feels totally uncomfortable and hates the idea of university and it confirms that he will go to work. Or not.

I'm not sure anyone has agreed with your judgement about this. But you don't seem willing to consider what people are saying, so it does make me wonder why you asked in the first place, if your thinking about this isn't even slightly flexible and open to influence from others.

Is it that you are enjoying disagreeing with everyone, but will send your son on the course anyway?

Will be interested to know if he actually goes or not.

It is impossible to say who would gain most from such a trip. My brother takes teenagers on such visits and has said that sometimes those from very deprived backgrounds, however bright they are, go on such visits and just feel over whelmed and out of place, whilst often those from more affluent backgrounds who haven't really given their future lots of thought (like most teenagers) have gained a lot.
It is impossible to say for us, but also for you too. The people in the best position to make that judgement are the school because they know more about the range of children, whereas we don't and you don't and actually even the school can't totally accurately predict who will gain the most from the day.
So you should trust their judgment and send your son.

Wouldn't it be a pity if he missed out on something that could be really useful for him, because of your over thinking of this. Is the issue for you really that you are so keen to ensure everyone from a less privileged background has equal access (are you doing other things to achieve this end - I guess you must be if it is so close to your heart) or is it that you don't want your 'privileged' son lumped in with the less privileged? The fact is, he is at a school with a low number of high achievers and low record of university applications - this does make his experiences different to the majority who will go to Uni and so despite your educational background, he still stands to benefit from more exposure to the things he might not get at school.

Take every opportunity offered - I assure you, that the children I teach in a selective independent school with an impressive record of university admissions would jump at any opportunity like this, rather than seeing it as not for their kind of people.

My DC have the privilege of regularly visiting Oxford, and have visited colleges since they were babies.

If any of them were offered the chance of visiting Oxford or Cambridge as part of a school trip - I would jump at the opportunity. As although others may never have even visited, out of my children only 1 might even consider themselves to be "oxbridge material".

By visiting the local University, your son could find a new interest or area he wants to discover.

At my DCs' privileged schools visiting the local University is something they have all done at various times. One first went with school when she was 10! They regularly go to lectures and other events there.

At my somewhat deprived school it was still pretty usual to visit the local Poly. It should be a normal part of every pupil's life. So you should be asking why they are not going more often, rather than if your son needs the visit.

Bertrand
It might be a life changing opportunity for your child too.
Please do not be so arrogant as to prejudge both your child and others.
The school know who they have picked.
You only know one of the names.

All four of my grandparents went to University, as did both of my parents and all of my siblings.
DH and I both have degrees and postgrad qualifications.
DH has an honorary post at an RG University.

My kids go to any University event they are offered
because they are their own people with their own minds

It would be out of order for me to prejudge their choices.

Bertrand knowing what he wants really isn't enough.

Surely your expereinces around the 11+ have taught you that assumptions of entrenched privilege don't always work out how you imagined.

And OP your posts do have a sense of you somehow as lady bountiful looking out for the peasants on your estate. You might not I tend it to come across like that, but the number of people on this thread who have seen it like this, should make you question if everyone is wrong and consider how you are coming across to people, even if it is not your intention.

It doesn't matter on here, but in real life, such an attitude could be very offensive.

It is not your job to decide who goes and who doesn't. Perhaps the school feels that your son would benefit hugely from the course, for whatever reason.

I think you underestimate the effect a visit to a university campus might have on him. DD1 wanted to go to university - always did. Wanted to do engineering. It was only when she visited the campus that she realised how much she wanted it and how much more effort she would have to put in to enable her to achieve it.
I really can't understand why you wouldn't want him to go.

There are two reasons why I'd suggest it good for him to go. DD1 is on such a list, but was unable to attend one event (can't remember why) so was not invited to the next. That issue has been resolved, but it meant she missed out on something that would have been really useful.

Secondly, though it sounds like he has already thought about it, going along will mean he is better placed to start thinking about his future education as his own thing, not just what the rest of the family have already done IYSWIM.

OP he's only 14 I know from personal experience children change their minds all the time. Maybe he'll go and decide it's not for him, perhaps he'd rather do an apprentaship or maybe he'll find a course that he's previously never thought of.
I just can't see what the problem is with letting him go is unless you have direct evidence that he's depriving an equally suitable or more suitable child of a place.

I still think he stands to benefit. Yes, you have been to Uni and are pretty clear in your mind he will go. He might have an idea about what he wants to study.
However, many of the kids who DO go will have spent their schooling in places where Uni is talked about all the time and both staff and kids are focused on a very different approach to school than your son might have had. Exposure to these kids and to university for himself is hugely valuable.

At some point, every kid needs to take on board the university aspiration for themselves and make it their own, rather than it being the thing their parents want. Actually visiting a university plays a big role in this,which is why he should go.

Have you discussed the idea of him not going to let someone else who is 'in greater need' go? Does he also think that it would be good to give up the place? It is up to the school to decide who would benefit from going really,rather than you - and they think he would benefit, so send him.

You are incredibly rude!

So your son is wonderful - and despite being in a secondary modern - he has a birthright which means if he chooses he can go to University. Of course he has a totally free choice in this, and will in no way be thinking university may not be for him because he is in a secondary modern, after all you and your DH have 4 degrees between you.

I would be furious if my DC met the criteria and were not offered the chance because they were perceived as not needing the opportunity - because of their parents. (Sutton Trust activities are different because parental past non-participation in University is part of the criteria.)

At the end of Primary school one of my DC was supplied with a resource by an outside agency. The school put subtle pressure on me not to collect it, as they knew we were wealthy enough to buy it ourselves. This annoyed me as: it was my DC's resource, it was well thought out - and I would have at least needed to take an inventory to make my own, and I was not sure that if we didn't collect it it would go to someone in need and not just be reused by the teachers.

Friends of mine have received Student premium despite their degrees because they live in a deprived area.

BTW DH and I have 6 degrees between us.