Right. Tell me what to do here- key words- 11+, g&t, University, widening access......

Bertrand I've agreed with many things you've written over the years but I think you might have been overthinking this a bit.

I completely understand your thinking here, but I think whether you mean it to or not it would have come across to the teachers as "are you sure you mean someone like my son? we're a very special family whose children don't really belong in a secondary modern, you know".

Like others have said, leave it up to the school to decide. Even if you suspect their logic, actively challenging it and offering to bow out would send all sorts of messages that probably won't be very good for your son.

I have dc who need every extra motivational boost they can get despite lots of degrees in the family - there's more than just family background that influences their ultimate choices about studying and applying for university.

Or another way of thinking about it - maybe every child at a SM has their inclination and aspiration to work hard towards university subconsciously knocked down by some percentage compared to what it would be if they had the confidence boost of having passed the 11+, and were at a school surrounded by a higher (critical) mass of young people focused on going there. You could think of your son as therefore running at 80 or 90% of his natural university-aspiration-level and therefore having something that needs boosting (compared to an otherwise identical child not at the SM) - regardless of where he is compared to the average of all his schoolmates.

That focus on ultimate goals (whatever they are) and willingness to work has got to power him through a lot of peer pressure over the next few years, and as much as possible needs to come from his own experiences, not just your background. He is as entitled as any other child who's been knocked back by the 11+ experience forced on them in Kent to have his confidence and motivation to work hard boosted back up by an access scheme.

I've been out for most of the day and am a little surprised we're still debating this?
Bertrand you clearly don't want your DS, the vast majority on here from all different backgrounds don't agree with your views and can't understand why you don't want him to go, lots of good reasons for going have been given but "at last" you've found the "voice of reason," agreeing with your stance and your happy. That's great, as you very obviously feel so strongly about it I think you're right don't send him, I hope he enjoys his PE lesson and with a bit of luck someone else will take his place, end of story.

We don't use "gifted and talented" any more, thank goodness!

That's a good point LaVolcan. Do they have a 6th form? May well be an early recruitment drive.

Our definites would be able students in receipt of pupil premium. For any remaining places, we would go for students we thought would benefit. We wouldn't have strict criteria. We would use our judgement. Probably not your son!

Maybe it's the school's letter which is badly worded. Maybe they should just say that they expect the top sets to take up this opportunity, and not make a song and dance about it being for Gifted and Talented?

Would I also be right in thinking that previously academically able children would have gone elsewhere for 6th form?

Just a thought a local school did a gifted and talented trip to Oxbridge and they had an afternoon exploring the interview process, the questions that may be asked, and what type of candidates they look for. Surely activities like that must be worth going for?

We have a very mixed cohort, and we would not send a child like your son on a widening access course. But we would the deal with parents who would hear about the trip, misunderstand the rationale for it (and we wouldn't particularly want to labour it with them) and question why their child wasn't on it. Because, like a pp, they would think their child met the criteria (able) and want the opportunity for their child. We do however have lots of able students from backgrounds like yours, and weare used to dealing with this. If your son's school has fewer students, then their experience will be different.

Lordy Mercy! Let the boy go!

You are over thinking it. There are too many variables you aren't privy to. Just make sure he is geared up to get the most out of it that he can. All this angst could inadvertently have a negative effect on him.

Send him.

Someone else on this trip will not have the same background as your son and will benefit from him being there.

You have no idea if the school would send another child if he didn't go, or if reduced numbers would cancel this trip.

And you ds deserves a day off.

I went to a grammar school and was the first person in my entire family to get a degree. I was actively discouraged from going to study beyond o levels and a levels as I was a girl and would get married. I first of all went to teacher training college ( acceptable) and then dropped out and did a degree elsewhere instead. My parents barely helped with any finance but thank god for old fashioned grants! Obviously this was donkeys years ago. Both my parents also went to grammar schools but left at ages 14 and 16 respectively. At my DDs 'outstanding' school there are several very bright kids who got 3 grade A at A level who didn't go off to university despite talent because their parents thought it pointless.

Eek. That's worse isn't it? I went to grammar school in Kent, as my mother did before me. Neither of us were regarded as "university material" in those days - the same old days when the clever children went to the grammar school and their dimmer brothers and sisters were sent to the local indys often to go on to have better careers because careers advice for the non academic in the indies was to go into things like surveying and marketing; whereas at the grammar schools it was to join the civil service at 18 or go to work in a bank as a teller

I think the OP needs to get on with it and the let the boy make his own decisions, encouraging him as much as possible. I know Kent well and if they are from my part then it would do far more good for the other children to see this lad go on the trip than to decline it.

Bertrand could you volunteer to drive your DS and another liberating space in the minibus?

Can't you just accept that your son is lucky to have parents who can support him & that he has been selected to attend a special event? There are lots of people who would be very happy to have their child chosen, who knows what this trip may lead to. Perhaps this is about your child, not you & his father?

Beaufort
The OP lives in Kent and her child failed the 11+
Its a bugger of a situation but changing schools in Kent is not like the real world.

What I'm wondering as you and your DH have so many degrees between you and must by virtue of that be very clever people, and if your children are gifted and talented, why are they attending a secondary school which is only just starting to send young people to university. Could you not find a better one for them to attend; one which has high expectations for all its pupils and which has clear and transparent policies about inclusion and selection processes for activities.

For what it's worth, of course your son should attend. He has been selected in accordance with criteria determined by the school. Who are you to question why and if he should go. He might do that but if he is a sporty sort of boy who is good at PE if he is seen to cock a snook at such a trip then so might others. Other who don't have support at home to go to university. Inclusion is about far more than who goes on these sorts of trips; it's also about how cohorts of children perceive those who don't go and who are seen to refuse them. Your son may well act cool and say "oh, you know, my mum said there was no point in me going". Just think about how that might be interpreted. If he has any emotional intelligence at all he most certainly wouldn't say "oh, I was selected but didn't go because my mum feels I'll go anyway due to the privileges I already have from my parents' education levels". I suppose he might experience another world if he does that - you know the one where you see all the other people who's taken a punch or three waiting to see the doctor in a&e.

Dear God!!! You are a Governor!!! Those poor teachers!!!!! I stand by what I said - like several others, I'm afraid he/you do come across as arrogant and selfish. I didn't say lazy. However, he clearly has mitigating circumstances and is only 14. If you have influence at the school, and that means you are directly concerned with its strategic vision, I cannot see why you don't suggest they do more trips and make absolutely certain that widening access really does involve all the children that would benefit. You are not fulfilling your role as a governor if you do not do this. Criticising the school on MN is a bit rich when you are a Governor and really could encourage the school to include more children. I bet the Head just loves you!