Is it too early to start a 2016 girls 11+ W/SW London thread?

from what i've been told a general interview really is just a screening

a specific subject interview eg at KGS means they were borderline on that paper and so they are trying to see if they underperformed or whether they are below the academic ability.

shy, quiet is all fine. having absolutely NOTHING to say for yourself / moodiness / shrug shoulders when asked a question is not.
shouting down others, not able to sit etc in group interviews is not ok.

just make sure they have something to say. they will always be asked what they do in their spare time, a book they're reading/have enjoyed, show some interest in sport/drama/music - anything.

The interview is also a good "selling" tool for those who will end up holding a few offers - this gives them the chance to have a good experience of the school and to feel like they would be happy there.

Commiserations for those of you with tired children. I did this last year, and one of the things I always try to convey from our experience is don't enter for too many schools as it is such a tiring process. But if you look at threads and posts in September/October, people blithely talk about applying for 6 or so schools. I completely understand about the need to keep irons in the fire, but it really is a draining process for all concerned. DH and I were in logistical knots about who was taking time off work to collect DD from school and then take her to an interview and then take her back home/to school afterwards. There was one day when there was a tube strike as well and it was like doing some sort of Ninja Uk-style assault course, frankly.

We did 3 schools for one DC and 4 last year for the second DC, and I think in retrospect even 4 seemed too many, although definitely in a two year period 4 had become the "new normal". But then it's really hard not to have a twitch and chuck an extra school in. We certainly applied for one as a banker which we had absolutely no intention of going to, but it's hard not to think "What if...." and to have the luxury of knowing for a couple of weeks that you have one in the bag. But then I completely accept that I was adding to the ratcheting up etc, which made me a bit uneasy. In fact it was last year's thread where there were people on the wait list for that school anxious for news of movement that made me realise I was part of the problem - or at least contributing to it.

I'm not sure what the ideal world is. I think part of the problem is having no clear idea where your child may get into. My DC were at a prep school with a lot of experience in this and they were pretty helpful - although quite off beam with one DC, so I wouldn't like people to think it's a straight nod from yr prep school and all is good - so I get that people without this help can be really adrift. Probably more consortium tests would help, or even a general one, so you sit a single exam and then on the back of it apply to 2 or 3 schools, depending on fit. My DD desperately wanted to go to one school because it offered girls' football and cheerleading (yay - straight line to Oxbridge, DD!) It would be good if you knew in advance you were in the right academic ball park, and then worked out what suited you around the edges (extra curricular/journey/siblings/cheerleading etc). This would help the schools as well, as they must have a number of children sitting the tests who realistically never have a hope in hell of getting in.

Sorry to hear your news Crazy. All I can say is the "gutted" feeling does pass a bit.

I do wonder if we are feeling it worse with most of us coming from State Primaries? I know that people tend to assume that the Prep school parents are more "Tiger mum" but the prep school kids are all so much more prepared and entrenched in the Indy school culture, and, in my view - halfway there. So presumably less stressful.

For me and DD it feels a bit like trying to make the leap from small grass roots cupcake business to the 90 City Banker jobs available against 800 people who have been working in banking forever.

Such a mountain to climb and education should not be like this. I think 11+ - more than any other time - highlights the injustice of how schools currently operate.

Similar to above, my DD has been called back to interview by all the schools that have them post interview but instead of feeling happy we just feel like it's yet another hoop that our poor daughter has to go through.
(Side note though to Crazy2016 and inattzz - so sorry you had to hear bad news at this stage / bloody unfair and disheartening - hope good news comes soon)
So far she has been fine and is pleased to be selected but even she ( who is such a nice kid- the opposite of cynical) is beginning to question why and what is it that they are looking for? Having been through loads of interviews in my lifetime, all I can offer her is to be herself but the most intelligent, articulate version of herself possible. And I feel like a sham for saying it because no 10/11 year old should think about herself in this way .., not yet anyway. Shouldn't they only start worrying about putting their "face on" at uni stage? It's a system that just feels so terribly wrong. We all know our children are wonderful .., and terrible ... But that 1 exam and 1 interview shouldn't be the measure of them. It's so utterly maddening and yet, it's what we have so we have to roll with it.

Maybe we should all band together to home school? Or create a real alternative school for these factories. But how does one get the green acreage of the Dulwich schools! Obvs their biggest selling point? Or the history of SPGS, Westminster, KCS ETC ....

Completely agree with Crazy & Shirley. The extent of the scrutiny of our children - their cognitive abilities, maths AND English (not allowed any weakness), reasoning, words AND pictures (one strength is insufficient) and finally they are to be judged on their personality and reaction to questions and perhaps found wanting? Fine for astronaut selection perhaps but not 10year old children. The more you think about it the more troubling it is. We have been 100% "successful" so far (too early for offers) and it's still wearing us out. Yes, we might feel different (relief) if we ultimately get the school we want but this does not make it right.

I feel very much the same Crazy. My DD is really starting to struggle even though the exams are done and she has one offer. The stress just goes on and on.

I think the whole process is getting totally out of hand and is not in the best interests of the children. It's impossible to insulate them from the anxiety.

I think you will feel differently once it's all over Crazy2016. However I will say that I went through the process from abroad last year and it was very nice to be detached from the pressure and madness. It's just the end result that wasn't so good! Having had overseas experience and having been "away from it all", I'm pretty sure that if I come back I'll be bunging them straight into state schools. Famous last words!

Thank you. Yes we will bounce back..! In reflecting on this whole process I think I would do it very differently with hindsight.. In fact I'm not sure I would out ourselves through it all and move house instead! I am quite concerned about what this Kind of madness and pressure is doing to mu 10 year old... Anyone else feeling like me?!

Crazy - it just won't happen. You will get a place. Its just annoying that the element of total choice has been removed from you, especially when you are spending your hard earned money.

I'm sorry Crazy. It is rubbish and so painful.

Ladymuck, you have given me some hope.

Thank you sdav - yes applied to quite a few of the consortium schools and had a number of interviews where they interview all candidates. This is the first rejection which has made me feel really really worried about the rest and the effect on my DD if it's a no everywhere... Can't bear it!

Crazy2016 - feel for you, especially when you've been waiting all day to open the envelope. I've been there. It sounds like you've had an interview at a selective already - maybe you could focus on that? Maybe your investment will come good there? The whole thing is bonkers.

Sorry, should have added, '(not academic) ' scholarship...

Can I just ask, does an interview for a scholarship mean the DC has passed the exam? Prob a stupid question but at this stage I feel I can't rely on assuming anything...

It's a no to interview for us for Latymer. I kind of knew it was coming but still hard to see in writing. It's all the investment of effort and time and work which feels like rather a waste...

Sdav, In my experience, based on boys rather than girls, the ones who don't make it through interview are either a) very reticent, not just shy, but almost mute, b) rather immature, and have the possibility of a further entrance stage ahead of them eg 13+, c) much weaker in one paper than the others.

East Londoner here place marking!

TeddTess - so is it the case that a high scoring child could very well end up in the "no" pile after interview based on performance on interview alone? What factors are likely to lead to such a rejection? Behaviour? Lack of Interest? Would it be something extreme & obvious? What about a genuinely shy child with excellent behaviour who is interested but perhaps a little intimidated? Or a sparky outgoing child who gets all the academic questions wrong? What l think causes the most confusion amongst parents when they are sending them in is how to gauge the importance of the demeanour of the child (you can't give them a personality transplant) and what would they say that could led them being dropped into the "no" pile. These are 10 year old children who do not think like adults and are only just beginning to understand the world around them so can come out with some bonkers answers. Some children are excellent actors and can be coached to say all the right things. Not mine though. Sigh.

they also need to know the schools applied to to know which other schools they are competing with - "their bucket" to try and avoid clashes with open days, exams but also to keep abreast of what the other schools are offering to ensure they remain competitive.

re the number of schools they need to know this to work out the average and to calculate the ratio of candidates to offers year by year.

or so it's been explained to me

my understanding of the interview process from an insider at a very selective girls school is this:
those that get above a certain mark in all papers are put in a pile to be interviewed.
those that get a high mark in one paper are interviewed with a focus on that strong subject but also an interrogation into the areas of weakness

the interviews then have a yes/no pile (the no pile is not influenced by exam grade)

then within the yes pile they are reordered by exam performance and offers made accordingly.

therefore the interview is really a tick box - the offer all depends on the exam.

On the one hand it's less personal to be rejected on the basis of the marks but on the other hand are we there just to make up the numbers? Neither is good. Anything other than an offer causes upset all round.

Thanks Jeanne, that's a really helpful insight into what's going on. It makes it feel far less personal to be rejected post interview to be reminded that marks still count more than anything else.

Thanks! I just never thought of not listing the schools!
When there is so little information you end up second guessing everything.

I don't mean to suggest that your DC will be discounted because you have put other schools on the list. The Head is merely trying to judge whether you are likely to take a place if offered. If your DC is high enough in their entrance exam but the Head thinks you are unlikely to take the offer, he/ she will still give an offer but will 'discount' it in their own formula for how many places to offer. All schools over offer. The very sought after schools over offer by only a few and the ones at the bottom of the popularity list over offer by a factor of 2 to 3. It is an incredibly difficult formula for the schools and they often get it wrong!