Is it too early to start a 2016 girls 11+ W/SW London thread?

always I am not sure they can tell at the exam stage but I'm guessing it could emerge during an interview. I really don't know how much they care around our way, if the outcome is that their the GCSE/A level exam results stay high.

....and not to offer them a place, in case my previous post was misleading!

Surely any child having four tutors to succeed is likely to end up being hot-housed into a school that's not a natural fit, state school or not? The one bit of inside knowledge that I have from one of the top sought after indies mentioned in this thread is that they are really on the look out for over-tutored children.

There is a lot more competition for the London girls schools and the 11 plus is only Maths and English (i.e. no MFL/Latin) so pupils at state primaries are not at a disadvantage if they do a bit of exam preparation. Indeed many state school parents like us have upped their game in recent years in terms of intensive tutoring for their DC, taking the view that as they are not paying prep school fees they don't mind spending a few grand on tutors for the 11 plus -one state primary school pupil I know had four tutors. I don't think all the preps-or their parents- have fully responded to the increased competition due to complacency on the part of the school or parents.I know plenty of perfectly bright prep kids who have recently failed to get into schools that they would once have sailed into.

So my purpose for lurking on this thread was to glean some intelligence about a Consortium 1 school my DD applied to this year. Our area normally stretches to the City of London schools and no further, so I feel like I've been out on my own with this one and wonder if the school not 'knowing us' will have an effect on whether DD gets in (albeit marginal.)

Across the other end of the A406 we too are seeing record numbers of applicants and those of us who have paid for preps are wondering atm what we got for our money given the scale of the tutoring. When you are first enrolling PFB at 3 you don't think to ask that question - how much of the track record is the school's and how much of it is the parents running a parallel curriculum at home!!!

BUt I also think things have moved on massively in the past five to six years but the schools themselves may be doing just what they've always done, which could be a risk.

There are some families at our end who have only applied for the three 'historic' feeder schools for DD's prep - and they are bricking it. One of these schools has had positively astounding numbers relative to previous years and it seems to me that central Londoners are also piling in. DD saw a girl there who had taken the Consortium 1 test for the school we're keen on, which I reckon is a high water mark for how competitive some of the schools 'in town' have become.

The other thing is in our area, the children who sat the 7+, the idea being they could stay at the new school through senior school, are sitting the 11+ anyway....as if they'd never left. And the schools with senior schools have expanded their preps, thereby reducing numbers too.

Not sure the schools themselves are working any harder for our their money, but definitely enjoying being able to pick, at their leisure, the cream of the crop.

I am trusting a lot in the idea that DD will end up in the place that is the best for her!!

My fears are closer to crazy and almost done. Harlow while you speak from your positive experience we are all aware that not all outcomes are positive for exactly the reason that Crazy has identified - Alleyn's just 10 years ago is very different from what it is now. Emanuel is getting ever harder. Ibstock which gets middling results relative to the uber academic schools has become really difficult to get into. While some schools will be uber selective wherever they are located (SPGS, WESTMINSTER, etc) some have become very selective simply because they are a London day school and fewer parents move out or opt for boarding due to economic or other reasons. I do agree though with Jeaane that whether you as a parent is happy/unhappy with the outcome, it will be SOUL DESTROYING if you let your DC think they ended up in a mediocre or bad school. My view is that my DD is an absolute rock star for having the forbearance, patience,, discipline, self reliance and sense of humour dealing with this absurd situation!! Regardless of where she gets in, I am so proud of her for slogging through all the exams and interviews (not to mention all those bloody boring practice papers when she would much rather be out doing a zillion other things) so regardless of the outcome I have been telling her that she has been utterly fantastic and her dad an I couldn't be prouder of her as we are now

I think that part of the problem is that there are just not enough of the middling schools for perfectly bright and lovely children but not too uber set geniuses! And those schools which might have been that are now just as oversubscribed and are also selecting the most able. So inevitably an average all rounder lovely child ends up feeling that someone they are not good enough! My DD came out of the first consortium exam saying that the maths was just ridiculously hard so clearly the bar has been raised again as the numbers swell... So I know that we are not finished and have yet to heat the outcomes but I am doubting whether it is indeed right that they all end up somewhere right for them or indeed even somewhere!

Harlowcar I do agree with Jeanne. The problem is you don't always end up with best fit. Sadly that is from personal experience.

Parents of 11+ children please listen to Jeanne as she speaks such sense. We did the 11+ two years ago and although it ended up with DC getting first choice school, it was a gruelling process. Two things - one is that your dcs will recover faster than you from the process, especially if you adopt the line that "we only applied for schools we are happy for you to go to" therefore any school on that list is a good result. The second is to try try try to have faith in the selection process. ..we may get blinded by the opinions of friend's and league tables, but often children end up with the best "fit" for them. And finally, you have my sympathy if you have to do it again...and no, it doesn't get any easier, nor do I feel I got any better at the process....

As I have previously mentioned, I work in one of these schools. It is middling in the 'sought after' list in SW London. So you should be able to guess what we are not, Ie. SPGS. I just want to say that when the girls arrive in a Sep, some of them and their parents are thrilled to be there as it was their 1st choice. Others just have sensible parents so are also happy to be there. However there are always some who let the school, and worse, their own DCS know that this was not their first choice of school and they really think they should have 'done better'. This has quite a negative effect and I have seen pupils really struggling to settle in as a result. So my plea to all parents is not to talk any school down.

Kuppenbender, one of the things I liked about Emanuel was whoever showed me round seemed equally proud of the fact that amongst it's alumnae was Tim Berners-Lee and the Rumble Strips

(I used to have a castle in my name btw in case anyone is wondering who this weirdo is turning up at a thread like this making random comments.)

The tears were before the interview.

Notatigermum, I agree. The schools set the process.

Unfortunately the minute schools start telling prep schools (or anyone) exactly what they're looking for, children will be rigorously coached, trained, brainwashed or whatever it takes. I think it's much better to have a general Maths/English entrance exam - if they're going to get extra tuition it might as well be in something useful, and keep people guessing (to some extent) about interviews.

While Oxbridge statistics are great for a school's prestige, it doesn't hurt to have educated a few prominent sportspeople, artists, stand up comedians etc... either.

I feel, and understand your pain right now, but I also think there is a danger of being careful what you wish for. Early up, someone has already confirmed that Emanuel has already closed its list for 2017. If all did that (and some are now thinking of capping based on yoy increase in applications), then the result will be like putting names down before we've had out kids for sought after nursery places. How many of us know this well before Y5?

I don't know what the fair way is, but I am glad there is another tier for those passing the academic thresholds. Those that sit the grammar (we didn't), will know it's black or white, first over the line. Doesn't take away the crazy numbers and queues around Kingston, therefore the stress on the child. And if you had an off day? Forget it.

Whether the interview is a marketing add on or has some value add to the school, think of the value it has on you and your child, as when the offers do come in (and they will), you will need to decide what to accept. I don't just mean the child's interview, it's also your interaction with the school on the days you are there, observing, talking to the teachers, school children, other parents etc. We were most certainly off put by one on the interview day after talking to a head of year about the school's sports provisions...

Most of you on here have opted for the very selective independents, and by that very nature, the process is, selective. Agree, there's some dark art in play...who knows how it gets applied, but, would you want your child being accepted in a school that they may not be suited to longer term? At the time, it's painful, but the cliche rings true that it is possibly a blessing in disguise, and the right school presents itself in the process. Though I know some slip through the net.

The question is asked, how many schools...we did 4, got one rejection, 3 offers. In hindsight, one too many. No prep background. Our head's advice? 'mm...long shot to get into any of them' so clearly ignored there.

We parents do need to hold some responsibility in the frenzy - holding one's nerve is not easy, and whilst not on here, I know this and last year who have sat in excess of 10. But, we knew that on the back of prepping, Christmas, exams, interviews - the wait to mid Feb/March is a long game. That our children are young, and that burn out is inevitable, but we still chose to do it, because we thought it was worth it.

It is not in these schools' interests (well most, I believe) to have the 1 profile type child...so it's still all to play for.

Totally conscious that some of you have had disappointing news already, but many of you have made it through to final stages. That means they got through to the top 1/3. Doesn't matter if it's 500 or 1300 applicants (our doing, by entering for more), they met the standard to go through to last stages. Hold your nerve, and try see the last stage as an opportunity for yourselves as much as for the school, to see if that school is worthy of your child...even if you don't have the 100% choice at this stage. In a couple of weeks, you may....

I think it's certainly true that the sands are shifting and even the prep schools that have a lot of experience in predicting where would suit and a track record of prior pupils that they can benchmark against are finding it hard.

My DCs prep did a lot of CATs - maybe twice a year from Y2 onwards. So the school had a pretty consistent body of evidence of what any child was capable of and their range. But the head told me the crucial bit of info they were missing was what range the secondary school wanted. She said they had their own informal views, based on what offers had been made to children at the school in previous years, and so you could say - well, if your blended/average CAT rates are about 115 you are not going to get into SPGS, but that was probably pretty much evident anyway. She said her life would be much easier if the secondary schools could give some pointers as to what they were looking for, as effectively the only thing the prep school could go on was what had happened in the previous year - and that was also dependent on the prep school having had children (who they had a body of info about) applying to that secondary.

Very interesting posts from rascar and always frank
Think the whole process lacks integrity - we are all taking a shot in the dark about schools as even a great prep like my DD's school have no idea which kids will get offers from which schools. They counsel us to widen the net because it's getting harder and harder to predict. 10 years ago Alleyn's had about 200+ applicants for their 130 places, this year it was 711 a fall from last year's 800+ Perhaps because parents got turned off by the lack of prefictability? I certainly think a south London consortium would be useful or even an ISEB type exam for the day schools and some standardisation of the process, At a time when there are so many books and social commentary about the dangers of putting too much academic and other pressures on kids it seems ludicrous on the one hand to have heads of various respected secondaries making pronouncements about us pushy parents putting too much pressure on our children and then having such a mad opaque system for secondary school entry - I am thinking in particular about the heads of SPGS, KCS, wimbledon, Wellington, Eton - all schools with absolutely madly competitive and idiosyncratic exam and entry process.

would be interesting to have others input on this Alwaysfrank. I do think 5 is a lot though i guess where you live has a big influence on the number of available schools.

in 2015 DD1 did 2 and got 2.
next year DD2 will do 3. one is unlikely, one i am hopeful, one is a banker.

but we also have good state options so i don't need lots of back ups.

Our state primary were no help either. It's a brilliant primary but I have to confess to a feeling of sniffy/not our ethos, about it all from the teachers.

We definitely feel a bit like we are wading through treacle.

I've been thinking about the "ratcheting up" that seems to happen year on year.

DC 1 sat 4, got 3 offers and one waiting list which came through as an offer
DC 2 sat 5, got one rejection, 4 offers
DC 3 sat 5, got one rejection, three offers and a waiting list
DC 4 sat 5, three rejections and two offers.

DCs 3 and 4 are at least as bright if not brighter than 1 and 2, yet the journey was so much harder for DC4 than all the others. It's easy to say 5 is too many to sit, but which ones should we have left out? I'm really glad he sat them all, with the benefit of hindsight.

was this pre or post interview Almostdone2?

fwiw at the Tiffin exam girls are often crying, being sick etc. That's nothing the school has done.

Our state school gave zero help, no advice. They wrote a standard reference, for a fee, which was sent to all schools who asked for one, but that was it. Even taking more than half a day for the exams was unauthorised absence, when in reality there were a couple where we would have only made it back to school for about 2.30 so what was the point?!

Great post RascarCapac

agree RascarCapac

the state school head should be able to advise a bit - ours did. They have EPIPs or equivalent tests done in reception, yr2 and yr4. These do give a good indication apparently. The head would also know the private schools where children do go from their school, where they tend to get in and where they don't.

The fact is many secondaries have feeder preps - LEH, SHS, St George's, Hampton so sometimes you really are competing for just a few places. I'm not sure it really is that much easier from the preps like Newland House, twickenham prep etc. without feeders. Although i guess you get a second chance at 13.

It is an awful process, but you have to trust that the schools are good at identifying children who will be happy there. I have been through the 11+ hell four times, and ended up with dc at four different SW London schools. The one with the most stressful 11+ journey is the one who is most overtly happy at their school, a school which on paper was our least favourite, and a backup option. FWIW, I think that the schools expect slightly less of state school applicants than their prep school counterparts, and are seeking potential rather than the finished article. Good luck and stay positive!

Girls were crying outside the school where I took my dd for an interview this morning.