Winchester College- Sports

OP - just to say the final year's boys' extra weekend at home is once per half term, not just once.

To be fair Peterenas I don't generally read the Wincoll's parents' comments on this thread as trying to fit Wincoll to the boy, it seems to me that people have tried to be realistic in where they feel Winchester fits in as a "sporty school" and about OP's reservations. But as pp said the OP's son is also academic and talented at music so OP has a balance of things to consider. And, it is also useful to suggest other schools.

Sorry if this has been posted already OP, but how the weekend coming out of school thing works at Winchester is that on Sundays boys are allowed home after chapel, and these tend to alternate between early and late chapel - so the boy is free from either approx 9.30am or 11.30am on Sunday. VI Bk I boys (final year) can also have one weekend at home leaving after saturday morning lessons. In both cases they have to be back for the house meeting at 9.15 pm on Sunday. I have no idea how Eton works at the weekend. It sounds like Charterhouse are more flexible about weekends.

Grovel that is a good point about the teams. V similar thing happened with a friend of mine's son who, given his prowess at prep school, ended up in lower teams at Radley initially than you might have reasonably assumed.

Sorry-I should have added that on the upside as well as being very bright the WC boys I have known have all had a natural charm and are not at all pompous (unlike the products of certain other private schools).

I have know a few people who have gone to Winchester but they have all been the quirky/ academic types-indeed it is hard to imagine a less sporty lot.

Talking about modifying comments, HG doesn’t give a second thought about modifying her own derogatory comments when she writes stuff like this, in total disregard to the offence this trash might cause to Eton parents. Make no mistake and let’s just be clear about this, she is saying her dog, repeat, her DOG is more precious than the Etonian boys whose parents have spent or are spending a £¼ million to have them there!

And her arrogance and disrespect is not confined only to Eton and Etonian parents alone but to the hundreds of boys and girls and their parents of other well respected (public) schools such as Stowe which is bigger than WC etc.

Yes, the pot calling the kettle black, I find her totally disingenuous and hypocritical and it is quite alarming to see a parent of a major British public school kid behaving the way she does; alarming because she still doesn’t realise or recognise the fault that she has in her but instead, is quick to criticise others when her interests take a hit. What message is this sending to her son at WC?

I am asked to ‘modify my comments’ but this request is conveniently attributed to some innocent Eton parents.

HG, at the risk of repeating myself, my comments and views are mine alone and no parent(s) either from Eton or elsewhere can ask me ‘to modify my comments’. For one, even if they did, they are unlikely to succeed because I’m not a performing donkey taking orders from a higher master. Secondly, the very thought of it sounds implausible as Eton parents are more cultured than you think to be asking anyone to modify his/her comments. Don’t know about Win Coll, but at Eton they teach you to speak up your own mind and be your own person. That’s what they mean when they say there isn’t a ‘type’ at Eton - there are more than 1300 ‘types’. So, please do not put words on the mouths of some innocent Eton parents.

It did not escape my notice that you are fond of imaginarily “quoting” some friends, or friends of friends, etc as ‘evidence’ on any particular events or topics throughout the years that you have been posting at MN. Well, I’m afraid others may be gullible but I don’t buy that crap. As you quite rightly say, I do it with solid evidence - thus the extensive links in most of my postings.

And I’ve been re-reading this whole thread to see whereabouts is my ‘behaviour’ to be found wanting. I found none. All I did was to offer an alternative to OP in her attempt to find a school for her sporting son and along came you to suggest that my post was ‘unpleasant’ and ‘dishonest’.

Sometimes I wonder who needs a more urgent education than these young boys and girls?

peternas you may not recall current Eton parents asking you to modify your comments but I do. The posters who've PMd in response to your comments have in a few cases done so to reassure that not all parents are behave as you sometimes behave on here and that you are not a typical example of an Eton parent and just reassure you I I don't go at round canvasing opinion of comments.
The OP titled her thread "Winchester College-Sports" indicating that that she is pretty serious about it so it's hardly surprising the comments she's received. I stand by my position and actually disagree with other parents with DS's at Win Coll if your DS is not only a genuinely very talented alround sportsman particularly in the major sports, but also am ambitious sportsman with aspirations of getting in GB teams/GB ranking or playing for England and if sport is very important to him (I'm not sporty but a I accept that to some people it is) then I personally don't think Win Coll is the right place for him that is not what Win Coll is all about. The OP said her DS is very musical but plenty of schools have execellent music depts, so if I was her I would not be only looking at Win Coll I would also be looking at others including the likes of Charterhouse Eton Radely Cranleigh and maybe even St Edwards all who have better more serious sporting depts than Win Coll.
Of course what we don't know is how talented the OP's really DS is, or how musical or anything else about him, maybe his current prep school head thinks despite his interest in sport he would still suit Win Coll because he would thrive on it's unique intellectual stimulation. As you pointed out she and or her head don't know about the boarding but a few years ago I listened to a mum with two boys who'd gone through win Coll moan that her 3rd DS was not allowed to be a day boy so I'm not surprised that the OP and her prep school head aren't familiar with the boarding arrangements.

Grovel is right, lots of very sporty boys at prep school don't make the top teams at large schools like Eton or very sporty schools like Radley. Sometimes it is not a question of talent but the amount of time different boys have put into their sport. A big football club junior academy player will have an advantage to a boy at a boarding prep school who has just played for their school.
The coaching for the lower teams may still be good but there will be less matches.

I is clear from actually reading the thread that Workingtoohard is considering Eto.

Eton has loads of very sporty boys, it is huge enough numbers-wise and rich enough to provide all things including pretty good coaching (although not as good as schools like Radley) to all sorts. There are however distinct differences from Winchester and we with DSs at Winchester are appreciative of what Winchester provides compared to Eton just as Eton parents or parents of other schools appreciate what their school offers.
The 'package' is different. Workingtoohard will make her own mind up what is the best fit for her DS and family.

OP, we don't know quite how talented your DS is at sport. A couple of years ago Radley had 75 new boys who had played in their prep school's first XV (rugby). As a result some of those boys ended up in the fifth XV for their year group which must have been a bit disconcerting/discouraging for them. There is an argument for being a big fish in a small pond.

Tanith, that’s not necessarily so. Believe it or not, I happened to meet up with my son’s old prep school headmaster last summer. Now, he is head of one of the premier prep schools in the UK himself and he said he’d just confirmed a certain senior school place for his own son because of the headmaster there whom he knew.

Lo and behold, this senior school headmaster has just been appointed Head of another very famous senior school and is leaving this summer. You can see the frustration and even disgust in the face of this prep school head. Clearly, his plans for his son have been messed up big time solely due to his own fault. He had arranged for his son to go to this particular senior school not because of the ethos of the senior school but because of the headmaster there. Now headmaster of senior school is moving on and his son is left dangling, so to speak.

And all this coming from a well respected prep school head himself. It’s mind boggling!

The Headmaster of this child's prep has recommended Winchester. Presumably he is not only in his right mind but also knows the Op's son rather well.

I do not recall at all of any Eton parents asking me to modify my comments. My comments are mine alone and no doubt there will be people who would not agree with everything I say just like there will be people who’d agree with everything I say. I also do not go online to say how many Eton parents, prospective Eton parents and absolutely non Eton parents have PM’ed me or met me for educational discussions etc.

OP in her opening post said she’s ”presently considering senior schools for my DS”. Some comments on this thread have made it look as if it’s WC that her son is destined for - trying to make the school fit her son rather than the other way round. It’s plainly obvious that OP hasn’t a clue what WC is like, talking only of being near to WC, having a greater possibility of seeing her son (on weekends?), possible great sporting facilities?, the prep headmaster recommending WC, etc.

I am just wondering, who in their right mind would recommend WC for a gifted all round sportsman (Cricket, Football, Athletics). I would dearly like to know the prep head’s logic on this. All I'm asking at this considering senior schools stage is to take a pause and a deep breath and provided a factual link or two. But that of course, seems to have invoked some kiasu WC parents coming out on the defensive, as ever.

"Never accept criticism"
The words pot black and kettle spring to mind.
I and most other parents give an honest opinion on Win Coll we don't endlessly praise it to the hilt, we don't recommend it as perfect for all, we are realistic and can see it's strengths and weaknesses, I think most parents with boys at Win Coll will cheerfully admit it's not perfect, at times it's frustrating but it works for our DS's.
Your right peternas the OP did ask a genuine question about Win Coll and sport and I have given a genuine and honest answer, I also as you can see suggested sport at Eton and indeed others might be more appropriate if her DS is very talented and wishes to pursue his talents to the highest level.
"these are the type of parents you're likely to meet at Win Coll"
On quite a few occasions you have been told by parents with DS's at Eton to modify your comments because your comments give a very wrong impression of the type of parents there, I have also over the years received numerous PM's (not just from a Win Coll mothers but even from others who I regularly don't agree with) stating the same thing and I actually met a MNetter the other day who also said the same thing. No one does more damage to Eton on here than you do.

Are you implying my post is dishonest and unpleasant, HG? By definition then it follows that all the pages at Wikipedia are nothing but dishonest, fanciful writings which would, of course, include the link given immediately above my last post by a WC parent no less.

What’s the matter with you, HG? The way you’re going on is as though you own this thread and WC and anyone who criticises it is unpleasant. But it’s quite OK for you to criticise a School that you wouldn’t even send your dog to?

So there you have it OP, these are the type of parents you will likely meet at Win Coll!

And is this what they produce at Win Coll then - never to accept criticisms and turn a blind eye to facts? Yes, what I posted is pure facts with factual links (something you have confessed you would like to do (links) but incapable of doing) and I’d sooner believe the pages of Wikipedia than hearsay from friends of friends’ mothers’-in-law secret lovers etc.

OP specifically expressed a genuine concern about sports at Win Coll which is what this thread is all about. And I haven’t even started on the music or the academics of other schools yet. Best we leave that to another thread.

Tanith sit down and have a glass and a piece of and brace yourself for a whole list of links to Eton's wonderful music dept [tedious smiley].
This was a pleasant and informative thread with those actually in the know giving their honest and well informed opinions about Win Coll.

I'm no Eton fan but football is a "major" sport in the Michelmas half and I've heard to coaching is pretty good, in the summer half cricket and athletics are "major" sports, major sports appear to be compulsory therefore strength in depth etc which I think is essential for ambitious talented sportsman. Also as I said above I thought there was slightly more flexibility in the boarding, least that's what I thought friends have said, I think they can come out on the odd Saturday night from the beginning We know a few with boys at both and they'll tell you Eton is very different to Win Coll what suits one boy wouldn't necessarily suit the other.
OP you probably need to look at both, (and others e.g. Charterhouse) although neither show themselves off well on their standard open day/regular guided tour IMO, at Win Coll you can arrange to visit outside of their open day and meet the boys/HM's etc in a much more informal way often over lunch, you'll get a much better feel for it, you and your DS can then ask the boys themselves what they think about the sporting opportunities.

Ah, but it's not just sports. Op is looking for an academic child who is musical, too. On that criteria, she does well to consider Winchester as one of her options, particularly as her son's headmaster has recommended it.

”Does anyone have anything positive to say about sport at WC?”

Hmmm. . . not really, OP.

But I’m just being dumbfounded why a gifted all round sportsman like your son would be looking at WC for sports. It’s like looking for a statue of Buddha in a Catholic church.

If it’s sports you want for your son, look no further than here which rather makes a certain George Christopher Nash look like an amateur.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Christopher_Nash

This is a more serious point. Not your son's sport WTH but just an example to say the school does have the facilities to encourage and bring boys on. I think you are wise to take your son to the school and have a look around and as a pp says you might find it suits him despite the reputation.

OP - Agree with Alpha and Happy above - meet the boys - speak to some of the sports coaches and see what your son thinks.

On a lighter note , as Summerends says, Montague Druitt , still put up by people as a candidate for Jack the Ripper did go to Wincoll. That said, (and I only know this because my father was a keen and not bad cricketer) Druitt was the Wincoll schools fives champion and also opening bowler for the WC team. Also apparently good at debating. He went on to New College Oxford and played cricket for them.

So, Wincoll does have some decent sportsmen

(resisting saying " sportsmen slash all rounders" )

Tanith sounds like a potential Le Carre plot. Boy fated to become spy with murdering tendencies through not just one but two poor choices of school by parent.

One of the OBs at DS's prep became a master spy. There's no hope for him

Timetoask I hear that some of his previous teachers said he was a nice young man . He also went to Cambridge so maybe it was there he became a bad'un My DS also tells me with relish that one of the prime suspects for Jack the Ripper went to Winchester. Had we known we would never have sent our DS there .

"I would say send your child to a school where you recognise the current pupils as being similar types to your child or being the sort of young men you would want your child to become. "

There was a recent case of an old wykehamist murdering 2 prostitutes in Singapore. Clearly not all the boys turn out that rounded.

I couldn't agree more alpha meet the pupils at any school preferably not at an open day and ask yourself is this the sort of person I want my DC to become and can I see him turning out like this? Many years ago I in the dinning hall of one of the houses at Win Coll eating lunch I sat with the top year and talked to a very unusual young man, now my DS is nearly the same age I'm struck by how alike he is to him. I could see him turning out like this even when he was only 9. I guess thats why it's worked so well for all of us.