Changing school after Yr8 due to lack of friends

I feel for you Pinkie. I have a similar sounding daughter and totally understand what you say about the best and worst outcomes. I would take her to look at the private school (regardless of their results, she will do well if she is bright and happy and happiness is more important, IMHO) and then if she likes it, ask the Head if she can do a trial week - not a day - explain your concerns and reasons for moving. If she feels like she clicks with someone in that week then move, if she feels shunned then you need to consider another option. What that is, I don't know but another 3 years without any friends is a miserable future.

Oh and the private secondary I went to was deemed amazing - Royalty went there. And the comp was good, but not stellar.

I'm a bit puzsled as to why you and she think she might not be top of the class if she moves to private. Certainly round here, the er not brightest children are in private school.

I went to lots of different schools growing up : I hated moving schools and not fitting in each time and this has stayed with me through my whole life. I was determined my DC go to one primary and one secondary because of this. One thing I did notice : I was top of the class at private secondary but nowhere near top at the local comp. The children at the private school were by far and away the most cliquey and bitchy. But that's one experience. Just because you are paying for it, doesn't make it a better option.

I think if you do move her, she must try and do extra curricular activities because this widens the friendship group. I am not sure it is the solution and the results at the private school are not fantastic. Are there no better alternatives that might have a space? A bit further away? On balance, I think I would move her but do your homework thoroughly about what the school actually offers - not what is says in the brochure!

PinkiePromise - you know your dd better than anyone. In your heart of hearts, do you think your dd is just really unlucky not to have found real friends, or do you think (not just fear, but think it is more likely than not) she will be taking the same problems with her? Do you think the alternative school will be any better at accommodating someone who in any school might come across as a tiny bit geeky? Or will this particular private school only really help with the sounding posh thing (assuming it does)? Or do you think your dd comes across as geeky more because she's given up on friendships and thus focused her energy on her academic work, rather than because that is the way she is and will always be? As you say yourself, girls' schools can be quite bitchy environments, and one that isn't particularly academic isn't necessarily going to be filled with geeky soulmates for your dd if that's what she's actually hoping for.

I think a taster day is a very good idea, and more of a look around by you. Do you know any other parents with children at the school? What is its local reputation? What is its reputation for pastoral care? Can you be put on a waiting list for the more academic school??

It is possible that the school could be a good solution - another school could indeed be fantastic for your dd and would give her a chance to reinvent herself if that's what she really wants to do, and moving now is a good time to move, academically, but whether any other school would be better than the status quo is definitely more debatable.

Re moving for friends I was moved as I had no friends and it made it even worse. There were already cliquey groups that were well established and i was even more of an outsider. I have friends who had the same issues too, I no no one who moved schools and found it easy to make friends straight away.

Could she do extracurricular clubs? I barely kept in touch with anyone from school but my best friend from the choir iwas in in primary school (and I'm an old sod now! So a long long time) stuck around.

Results are not everything , education is about learning to socialise ,resilience , developing interests being stretched sideways and not just collecting qualifications.

I was like your daughter , in top sets for everything , no close friends , somewhat introverted .At the end of year 8 I moved to a less academic school with great pastoral care , it was the making of me.Whilst on paper the results weren't so good in average , I got better results than I possibly would have done in the other school and my confidence soared , I ended up at a very prestigious university which I would never have even applied for at the bigger school.

We also moved our ds1 at this stage , he had friends but very low self esteem , very academic independent to less selective independent .Academically and socially he did so much better .

Remember percentage A-C only show what the average year gets , not what your child will get and these teenage years are so crucial you need to choose the school tang will help her to flourish .Has she doe a taster day at the potential school?

I wouldn't be concerned about changing school in Yr 8....we moved DD last October HT she was in Yr8....There were numerous reasons for moving her (School performance was deteriorating, disruption in class, low level bullying, friendship circle was not great - DD had made friends but in the main was having to blend in rather than be herself).

We are now two terms down the line and very happy that we moved DD, she's in an all girls private school but the friendship circle is good, she's happy in her own skin now ...she's found friends with common interests....I always sometimes felt that we had friends round at the old school and this was reciprocated whereas now DD tends to have more invites to friends houses...

The years 7-9 seem difficult because the girls are changing so much and maturing in different ways some faster than others....

If your DD is happy to move schools I would go for it ....I think two years is enough time to see if there are possible friendships ...

Some DCs who are not typical for their school are quite good at adapting themselves including the way they speak to blend in with their classmates whilst others find it hard and therefore always feel the outsider. I think alienation. is worse in early teens as at that age they are quite judgemental and seem to value fitting in most of all.
Changing school is always a risk but I think from your posts that if she feels less of an outsider there even without strong friendships she would find school a more positive experience than the 'no-mans land' existence she has now. Anyway the try out will help.

Great points summerends. That's what I wanted to say also but couldn't articulate.

My DD1 was not typical for her primary school but she got on very well friendship-wise and was happy. When she started at a different Secondary school to her primary school friends, she said to me how nice it was to be with girls who were more like her. She'd obviously been doing a lot of adapting to fit in at primary school. DD2, although the more naturally outgoing of the two, isn't doing so well with friendships at Primary school and has reached Year 4 without ever having had a best friend. She's got plenty of acquaintances but she doesn't want to change who she is. She is frustrated that so few of the girls want to do the things she enjoys.

Pinkie independently of the decision to change school I am not convinced that a dance class is the best outside activity to make friends so I would encourage her to do something else. What about finding a junior book club or a local summer activity week such as putting a play on or anything which involves proper group interaction and more chance of meeting like-minded people?
Some DCs who are not typical for their school are quite good at adapting themselves including the way they speak to blend in with their classmates whilst others find it hard and therefore always feel the outsider. I think alienation. is worse in early teens as at that age they are quite judgemental and seem to value fitting in most of all.
Changing school is always a risk but I think from your posts that if she feels less of an outsider there even without strong friendships she would find school a more positive experience than the 'no-mans land' existence she has now. Anyway the try out will help.

I also have to say from my observation of my DC, friendships can change a lot in year 9/10. Especially in year 10 when they choose their options and are more grown up.
How big is her present school?
The other thing is "just having people to hang with at break and lunchtime" can be as good as it gets in school, its only 6 hours or so a day. Sometimes its better to concentrate on making real friends on the hours outside school. Is there anything else she can join?

Moves are always risky, but I think that it will be worth the risk. I know a couple of girls who moved to private school because they didn't make friends at comprehensive, and they both became a lot happier in a very small group of girls (the class was boy heavy).

and apologies Pinkie - I should learn to read your whole response before writing - you have clearly asked her what she wants as an outcome

Feel for you and your DD. Your risk concerns are valid also - but also if things do not change in Y9 for her, then it's more difficult to move in Y10 with focus on exam prep.

The more concerning factor is that your localish private school is not that highly rated by you. I know that your folks are paying, but have you checked the pastoral side of things there, how often do girls move out of year, how do well do they integrate etc. Your daughter is highly academic (but doesn't think she is), so this trait may also need addressing as her anxiety to over achieve may be an inhibitor to her relaxing amongst her cohort.

Does she know what she wants to achieve from a school move (other than making new friends)? What things may she need to address to make things work? I mean simple things like being more open to joining in, signing up to extra curricula stuff etc. Sometimes a move is enough for some to clean the slate and immerse with a renewed energy, and she does actually sound well up for it. Therefore there's a great chance that she'll make it work for herself if the motivation is self driven.

I would definitely talk to the school, maybe even talk to her old school as well. Does she do anything outside of school? Does she have friends there?
I think outside school interests are very important.
If she is depressed, then take her to your GP.
Does the school offer any in school counselling?

I would move her if the problem was just about school, but unless you know things are better elsewhere, then I would be wary - I do know one girls who was moved a lot through schools, and never really settled (and wasn't in education at all last time I heard). In her case I do wonder if there is an undiagnosed SN (and her mother is a psychologist so I couldn't really have mentioned it...).

In your DD's case the most probable issues are: a) an SN, or b) teenage depression, or c) unlucky contemporaries at school, or d) a combination.
But until you have more idea of what is the underlying issue then its hard to tell what the solution is.

Being involved in things outside school has been crucial to my DC.

Have you approached your current school for support? Some secondary schools run a lunch time club where children who are finding it difficult to make friends or who are alone at lunchtime, can sit together. An adult will be with them to help them chat and get along.

A form tutor/ HOY will usually invite a student who they think may need the extra support, but perhaps they are not aware your daughter could be invited.

I think your DD should spend a day at the other school and get a feel for it. We had to move DD in Y8 (different reason) and she spent a day at a couple of schools, after those taster days she had clear opinions on which was the better option for her and things have worked out well.
To me, it does sound like she's very unhappy but grown up enough to try and "get on" with things. I wonder if your dislike of change and own school experiences are perhaps minimising how she's feeling, a bit?

My DD only really settled into school friendship groups from the end of Yr 9 /beginning Yr 10 when they were setted for their GCSEs and surprisingly most of her good friends are boys.

She didn't seem to fit with the shopping/make up and fashion girls nor the flicky haired 'populars'. Tbh in retrospect I think that she didn't want to change too much to 'fit in' with those groups.

We actively encouraged her to participate in activities outside school like Guides, Rock Music and a Church run Youth group (despite her not being religious) and she has made some really good girl friends from these activities, although they are not in the BFF league.

If your daughter is unhappy and would like to move and you can afford to do it, then try a taster day/week to see if she really does like the new environment.

I would say that you can't force friendships and sometimes we look at the teenage years through rose tinted glasses. Sometimes the supposed tight friendship groups are, in fact, nests of vipers with insecurity being the tie that binds them together.

Also, by remaining independent, it means that your DD will be able to make her own choices and not be unduly affected by peer pressure to fit in (drugs/smoking/drink/sex).

A try out would be a really good idea.

I would do as you suggest and let her have the try-out and see if she comes back widely enthusiastic with girls she immediately feels happy with. If her response is mitigated or you think the product of wishful thinking then she needs to be persuaded that it is n't the 'golden ticket'. Having said that being the only one with 'a posh accent' especially at that age could be enough for her to continue as the outsider.

However in any case I agree with Bertrand, focus on creating a different peer group with an outside activity and tell her that strong friendships may have to wait until later.

Hmm. That starts to look more complicated. If the private school results aren't any better, and if she isn't actively unhappy then I might think twice, to be honest. Is there an outside activity that she might like to do where she might find soul mates? My ds is a bit of an oddity in his school, but he does drama quite seriously outside school. He has people to have lunch and a chat with at school- but his friends are all from drama.

I know it is centuries ago, but I didn't make any proper friends until year 9. I don't know how it happened either - I think we just suddenly started sitting next to each other in class and that was that. And after that, everything was better, and we as a pair made friends with other like-minded girls. And we are still friends, a scary number of years later.

It wasn't as if I was being deliberately excluded or anything, I just never really clicked with anyone before that. There were lots of girls at the school that I knew from primary, and they were all OK - just not on my wavelength, nor I on theirs. I wasn't all that bothered as my favourite thing was to have my head stuck in a book (still is), but when I found my friend life became so much better. We were both top of the class all the time too - we divvied the honours up between us, and in many ways it was an important part of our identities.

So what am I saying? Be careful I guess. Her friend may well be lurking in her class waiting, and years 7 and 8 are so difficult anyway in terms of working out who you are. There is no guarantee that a new school would be better, and the current place has lots of advantages.