Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

6th form exclusion ...?

61 replies

MadameSin · 23/05/2015 11:33

Does anyone have any knowledge of this kind of thing? ... we have received a letter from our ds's 6th form informing us that with effect after half term, ds, along with 10 others, have been excluded from the premises due to damage in the toilets and subsequent lack of cooperation regarding who did it. They have cctv footage of ds and many others entering the loos during the period that this damage took place. My son wrote a statement that the doors in the loos had been broken for a while and that he had occasionally put them back on their hinges. There was a bit of shenanigans that took place according to ds, but no damage had been caused by himself. He does know, however, who did the damage but has not said this in his statement. Can a school collectively exclude several pupils formerly, if they do not tell them who did the damage? Obvs we are gutted as he is mid flow A-level exams and for good reason, he is also very stressed out about it all. He doesn't want to name names through fear of the backlash on him. He has never been involved in any trouble at college and the head of 6th form has told me he does not think ds is responsible for the damage. They are also talking about making the parents pay for the damage Sad

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Thymeout · 26/05/2015 21:13

Yes - and the school I was talking about earlier - 6th formers too cool to do anything silly - was a SE london comprehensive. They have a ball - literally, as their leavers' celebration.

DoctorDonnaNoble · 26/05/2015 21:00

I was talking about my pupils at my school. They don't do this stuff. At least not in the past 10 years.
It really has nothing to do with the type of school and more to do with the students and set up. For example, many schools now require certain behavioural standards to be met to enable attendance at end of school events.
I don't think our students behave well because they're grammar students - that would be stupid.

Original poster
MadameSin · 26/05/2015 20:56

Love the way Mumsnet posts evolve. I'm staying well out of the Public/State school row Grin

OP posts:
sunshield · 26/05/2015 20:42

What were you saying about Grammar school Pupils "DR NOBLE".

Everybody knows there is a rule to go by regarding what is acceptable behaviour

Eton/Harrow Bullingdon Smashing up Restaurants throwing pint pots "high jinks" can pay for the damage !.

Grammar School = water pistols water fights.

Secondary Modern any different or high spirits will be treated with punishment.

It just about sums up the class system of England !.

sunshield · 26/05/2015 20:35

Who remembers this incident from this time last year. ?

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2640381/Pupil-expelled-grammar-school-quizzed-police-throwing-custard-pie-teacher-ictured: Moment grammar school pupil threw the custard-pie at his teacher in end of term prank that got him questioned by police then expelled

titchy · 26/05/2015 20:31

Last year someone set off the fire alarm at dc's comp's leavers day -result - child banned from the prom that night.

Throwing stuff at passing cars would warrant police involvement. That is NOT high jinks ffs, that's criminal.

DoctorDonnaNoble · 26/05/2015 19:55

I teach in a grammar school. Our students do NOT do this. They come in on their last day in their old uniform. They have a leavers' 'do' in the evening and misbehaviour would result in a ban.

EvilTwins · 26/05/2015 19:34

Flour and eggs at passing motorists?? Oh, but it's grammar school kids so that's ok - just high jinx. Totally fine if someone gets hurt in a car accident as a result Hmm

Milly - it's not an exclusion though is it, if the child is still allowed into lessons.

MrsUltracrepidarian · 26/05/2015 19:19

A muck up day made the national press a few weeks ago at JFS (Jewish Free School) in North London - fireworks being thrown, police being called...
I have taught there a few times, lovely school, well-behaved kids - last place I would have thought of uncontrollable and scary behaviour.

Original poster
MadameSin · 26/05/2015 19:13

I have teacher friends and they dread muck up days ... fire alarms activated, stink bombs and 'rape' alarms thrown all over the place. Add an all boys school into the mix and hey presto

OP posts:
Millymollymama · 26/05/2015 18:59

So, this IS an exclusion!!!! I used to work in this field! So I know something about what schools can do and what they cannot do. The wording such as "you cannot come on the premises" is the way schools get around the law. If it is going to the governors and the LA are informed, it is an exclusion. The school must make appropriate arrangements for the students to take their exams. So my information is correct. Sorry.

Muck up days might be a boarding school "let off steam" day. Usually included taping down loo seats, covering the Head's car with post it notes, putting up "wanted" notices around the school for teachers, staff entertainment night for the pupils, 6th form entertainment night for the staff, a few water pistols.... You get to join in when you get to upper 6th. Actually the local grammar schools do it here - flour and eggs at passing motorists.

Original poster
MadameSin · 26/05/2015 16:06

I used the term 'exclusion' because that's what the school called it. Not my wording. EvilTwins they have gone via the governors because their letter also stated that and they supplied me with the County education dept contact should I wish to appeal ... all sounded pretty formal. However, I get what you mean by not a total exclusion, but was only using their terminology although there are conditions attached. Neither he or I will not be paying for any damage as he didn't do it.

OP posts:
tiggytape · 26/05/2015 13:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

EvilTwins · 26/05/2015 13:13

Milly - he hasn't been excluded. The OP has used the term incorrectly. You need to understand that as it is making all of your comments irrelevant. Given that you're setting yourself up as some kind of expert in the field of exclusions, surely you realise that this is not an exclusion?

A school is perfectly at Liberty to do this. It does not need to go through the governors. For what it's worth, my school has done the same with half a dozen yr 11s who have caused similar issues. They are allowed in for exams and for scheduled revision sessions but nothing else. It's not an exclusion - it's enforced study leave. We are fulfilling all obligations to the students, and plenty of other schools in our area have complete study leave now anyway.

Thymeout · 26/05/2015 13:02

What are these 'muck up' days? Not allowed in any school I've taught at.

Special precautions were put in place for the Yr 11's last day before study leave to prevent any sort of mayhem. The sixth formers were far too cool to do anything silly.

OP - I'm sorry your ds got caught up in this, but I do think the school had no choice, if they were all covering up for each other. Interesting life lesson as to the difference between loyalty to the team and collusion.

DoctorDonnaNoble · 26/05/2015 12:33

It doesn't sound like an exclusion though. If he was excluded he would only be allowed back for exams and would take them somewhere else, sounds like they're minimising the chance of it happening again.

Original poster
MadameSin · 26/05/2015 12:19

Doctor ... I understand how damage to school property is serious and I'm not playing it down. My OP was basically caging opinion regarding the severity of the exclusion Vs ds's 'crime' .... he did not damage property, but in the same breath did not name the culprit. Hey ho, we all live and learn and this has been an interesting thread and food for thought. thanks all!

OP posts:
DoctorDonnaNoble · 26/05/2015 12:13

Sorry for the double post. I think it is serious. Muck up days are not usually 'allowed' in that way. At our school, those sitting A levels are on study leave, similar behaviour would result in the student only being welcome for their exams.
A student who went on the cricket tour after his a levels caused similar damage and isn't allowed on school premises. He wasn't allowed to come on to the site to collect his a level results.

DoctorDonnaNoble · 26/05/2015 12:09

But he does know who damaged school property. Similar things have happened where I work for exactly that.

Millymollymama · 26/05/2015 11:37

MadameSin - So many people have over-reacted. I agree. Calling in the Police for a door off its hinges? The Police would, correctly, refuse to attend. The school would be laughted at! Lots of schools have "muck up days" where a bit of steam is let off prior to the exam season. It should have been dealt with in this context.

The Exclusion Policy (not behaviour policy!!!) should have been given to you with the exclusion letter if it is not on the web site. This says to me that the school is doing what it wants. It is not giving parents a chance to see if their actions are fair by not publicising their policy. I would have thought that each child should have been interviewed. Normally a statement is Ok if you are a wittiness but NOT if you are being excluded. This is not a correct way to investigate when all the boys have been exluded. If they think they know who it is, the pressure should be applied to that child. Exclusion could be used for the culprit but not as an investigation tool. Reading some of these messages you can see why some schools exclude all the time! Half of what has been said does not comply with the law surrounding exclusions.

DoctorDonnaNoble · 26/05/2015 11:22

But he does know who damaged school property. Similar things have happened where I work for exactly that.

Original poster
MadameSin · 26/05/2015 10:13

Tiggy I'm neither soft touch or looking to minimise anything - you have no idea of the convesations I've had with ds about the situation. You are assuming I'm trying to make excuses for him. It is what it is and I haven't spoke to HT, Governor or LEA and probably won't. The Dept Head was embarassed aout what he felt was an 'over reaction' by the head but as I said she had no choice in my opinion. Blimey, you'd have thought ds had put and axe to the door by some reactions .. a crap, flimsy door that spends most of it's life off it's hinges cos its been fitted badly and cheaply and all of a sudden ds is a deliquent - dont think so. He's 18, still learning and as we all did, will make mistakes a a few bad choices along the way, unless he's perfect which no one is. He didn't damage any property and didn't want to get involved due to looming exams that are stressful enough.

OP posts:
tiggytape · 26/05/2015 09:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
MadameSin · 26/05/2015 09:13

Mrs He is taking the punishment without argument, and probably rightly so. School know who the culprit is as the name has cropped up sevaral times during their investigations, but as he hasn't confessed, so they have taken this stance. I don't think a door off it's hinges is criminal damage but I do think the HT is making an example of the group for future reference. Not all of the lads knew who did it as they had left the area, including law student. HT is making a point as she had no other choice. I don't think a police investigation would hold up tbh, loo door off hinge - that would be a severe waste of resources and valuable time for all parties - complete over reaction. Please don't think I'm a lightweight.. I've given it to ds with both barrels and he is in no doubt of how I feel about his involvement - it's stressed him out at a really shit time and he does't want to go in at all as he feel embarrassed.

OP posts:
CamelHump · 26/05/2015 09:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Swipe left for the next trending thread