Regretting turning down a grammar school place

Re the waiting list it depends on the individual grammar school's published admissions criteria. For example, the one DS is going to the position on the waiting list is determined firstly by score, so those with the highest score in the 11+ will be at the top of the list, regardless of when they joined the list. If there is more than one place and more than one child in the highest score, they will look at distance.

Another local grammar has different criteria, which do not take score into account ( except you have to have passed ), those on waiting list are taken first by distance.

Yes, will have to pay the fees, but can't imagine that will deter them from going onto the waiting list, as one term of fees is little compared to 21 terms of fees,which is what 7 years of independent ed amounts to.
OP can go onto waiting list, holding onto the Independent school place until the point if and when she gets an offer from the grammar. This wouldn't be immoral, as isn't holding 2 places. This is exactly why the independents ask for a terms fees - as this kind of thing happens a lot. And I think that a terms worth of fees is getting away with it lightly tbh. The school might have hired an extra teacher on the basis of a few more pupils and if that amount drop out after the teacher is hired, their salary will still have to be paid whilst a few lots of 1 term of fees might not cover it.

What is OPs friend planning to do if she goes on the waiting list and DOESNT get the grammar place? Will she cough up and go independent, planning to be there for 7 years once starting, or look round for an alternative state option? Is it truly not being able to afford it (seems unlikely - why would you get to this point if this was the case) or is it just cold feet at the thought of the fees and lifestyle impacts? I suspect that if there is no grammar place forthcoming, they will cough up for the private school. Might always kick themselves though!

Is there any chance that they go on the waiting list, receive an offer again for the grammar and then turn it down again? The reasons that made them turn the grammar down first time round, may make them do it again, when it really comes to it.

OP I suspect your friend has cold feet at the thought of the cost and is just speculating to you about what she might do, but in reality has thought through her decision and will stick with it, although feeling a bit anxious. Turning down a great free place in order to pay for years is something people do after lots of soul searching, and I suspect all but the richest feel a bit worried they might have made a mistake at some point. However we make our choices and then we must live with them.

I would say that until the child starts the school, it IS possible to change ones mind, as long as one is prepared to pay any financial penalties. So if they really think the grammar would be best, they should get on that waiting list tomorrow and not hang about. If however the child starts at the private school, I think they should stick with it then.

I feel your friend should consider, very carefully, what benefits the independent school might bring over the grammar school. If there are grammar schools nearby, is the independent school truly first class? Where I live there are state grammar schools but no top class independents except one which has a well known name but not stellar results. The local grammar school is way better for that. However it is not all about results. Many people choose independent schools for other than purely academic reasons. Many families have been to top independent schools for generations. I think an honest appraisal of what each school offers is the best way forward. If it is purely a decision based on academics, the grammar school might be just as good.

The answer is that you can go on the waiting list for the school and the relative place on the waiting list will be determined by the admission criteria. From other posts it seems this is around a minimum "pass" mark and then distance. As you were offered a place and then rejected it one can assume that you met the pass criteria and were reasonably high on the distance criteria. One might therefore assume that you will be fairly high on the admission criteria list but whether the offer of a place will materialise will depend on the level of mobility there is in pupils. Usually that is fairly small in grammar schools.
You might well be better advised to apply for a place again, be rejected so you go on the waiting list and then go to appeal.You have nothing to loose and you will obviously fit the attainment criteria. Your case is going to have to be around the fact that having decided to go independent that you have realised that this simply not right for your child and that the grammar school offers the following advantages. It will be a bit of falling on one's sword and admitting you made a bad mistake. Whether that will be enough to get a place, I am not convinced but it is your only way forward other than sitting on the waiting list.
Do not be put off by the date by which appeals were meant to be submitted, the appeal "season" is just starting so it might be you could be looking at an appeal date very shortly if both you and the school /admission authority get going on it. If they say it is too late or that there is a timetable and it will be a long time, then that is wrong. It is never to late to appeal and you can also sign to agree to go to an appeal hearing at short notice under the regs.

Would second the caution about losing deposit and a term's fees (thought of course the grammar will still be cheaper in the long run). Worth checking the t&cs carefully as it is common for scholarship fee discounts not to apply to fees in lieu of notice.

Yeah I hate Indy too :)

Does the friend know that they are likely to have to still pay the first terms fee at the independent school even if their child doesn't go there?

Most have a clause about giving at least a terms notice and that time has now passed.

'indy"
makes vomitty gesture

ASingleJourney

We turned down a GS place for our DD in favour of an Indy one despite not having an excess of funds. It was definitely the right decision for us.

Your friend should trust her instincts. Why did she choose the Indy for her DS? We chose it because of the very high standard of music and sports and also because on the day of the visit it just felt 'right' whereas the GS didn't. Great standard of education on offer at both (although admittedly higher at the GS) so that wasn't any kind of deal breaker.

Still, it is quite stressful reaching these decisions and it's easy to make a mistake. If she takes the GS place and it doesn't work out it will be much easier I'm sure to get into the Indy (unless it is oversubscribed) that the other way round.

Best of luck to your friend OP.

teddygirlonce i can't believe you think it would have been ok to hold onto the grammar school place and indie school place after the acceptance deadline

but it is not ok to change your mind and go on the waiting list. someone else got the place they declined. they haven't affected anyone negatively but themselves in this.

bonkers.

Regardless of the circumstances waiting lists are held in strict order of the published admissions criteria. That applies to ALL, whether they were offered an declined, then reapplied, were unsuccessful first time round, or have made a late application.

That is what the Admissions code says. Prh, tiggy et al will confirm.

To penalise a child's position on a waiting list because their parents changed their mind is illegal.

No, I'm not suggesting that parents sit on two offers for an age (that is equally immoral), but there's a difference between 'decision-making' for a month or two and holding on to places unnecessarily for five months (which on occasion does seem to happen). Perhaps OP's friends should have sat on the offer until they were sure?

No objection to the DC being added back to the waiting list but certainly not to the top - surely if the friends were really in two minds they should have contacted the Registrar at the grammar school concerned and clarified policies/procedures relating to just such an eventuality, before giving up their DC's grammar school place?

There are many families who aren't in a position to decide between a grammar school and a private school at all.

Just wondering if any of you have DCs at grammar schools and really understand just how pressured the whole waiting list scenario is (and the demand for places)...?

Your views just come across as 'entitled' - parents who expect the system to work to their advantage.

On a more objective note, perhaps you should be asking some of the Mumsnet resident experts on Admissions etc... for their insights - Tiggytape and prh47bridge spring to mind. If anyone can give you the answer, OP, it's them.

And why is it a slippery slope? Far more unfair if all parents do what you suggest and hold onto both private and state places.

They're not allowing her to change her mind. They are simply adding the child to the existing waiting list. Exactly the same as everyone else who applied unsuccessfully for the school. She is not being advantaged in any way. If she gets a place again then the original status quo would have been restored. No other child will have been disadvantaged by this about turn.

Perhaps you'd like her never to be allowed to add her child to the waiting list, regardless of circumstances.

That may well be the case but still I really don't think schools should be allowing parents to change their minds like this...It is a very slippery slope.

Why didn't they just hold on to both places (as seems to be the case for many parents with offers for their DCs in state/private school sector) for a little longer???

If it hadn't been 'ill thought out" then that nail-chewing family would still be chewing their nails, as the pupil who fitted the criteria better than they did would have accepted the place from the outset.

Even so if the child goes to the top of the waiting list that's not fair as the parents have already given it up.

Adults and particularly parents should be capable of making decisions and keeping to them.

It really sends out very bad messages if schools allow this type of behaviour to become acceptable.

Might be different if there was no waiting list and parents/children already on it weren't so invested in getting the places.

You have only to look at the 'nail-chewing' going on on the 11+ Forum to see how much places are coveted.

Just being pushed one place down on the waiting list could make all the difference twixt getting a grammar school place or not... imagine if you were that family that missed out because of ill-thought-thro' decision-making by another family.

Perhaps you should be asking the question on the 11+ Forum to see if anyone knows of such cases....???

The parents should also get some credit for not, as others will have done, holding onto both the grammar and state place, perhaps right up to the start of the autumn term.

she's not getting it reinstated
she's joining the waiting list

I would have thought it might depend on what type of grammar school it is too....and where it is....

Can you imagine the furore though, if it became known that it's permissable to turn down a place and then get it reinstated???

"I would have thought that such a child would go to the bottom of the waiting list....(if there's any sense of what's right in this world)"

How waiting lists are managed is covered by the Admissions Code, and it has to be by how well you fit the criteria.

Otherwise you'd get the nonsense of someone who moved next to a school but never got into it because they had to wait for those who joined the list before them to receive offers, no matter how far away they lived.

Parents generally do not do what seems to be under consideration here, because they know there is no guarantee they can get the same state offer once it has been rejected. But families move house all the time, and getting a place because you're truly local is better than someone miles away getting it because they stuck their DC on loads of waiting lists straight after offers day and were therefore earlier on the list than the new arrival.