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Original poster

Is it worth an appeal?

36 replies

Boohaven · 28/02/2015 12:33

Hello all I'm new here and been directed this way from another site for help .
I've had the letter today that my son has not gotten a place at the secondary school that we have his older sister in .
I'll give you some background .
Dd is 13 and goes to a catholic school ( is none catholic as of yet we need to do a 12 week intro )
Ds is also waiting to do the 12 week Intro .
We had co serves over ds behaviour some years ago and after being referred to hospital for a specialist it was decided he had ADHD , at the time they suggested meds but with a house move and school change I asked if we could settle him and I'll have a chat to the new school about this .
After moving and changes at home and support from the school he has become much more settled so we decided that the best option was to carry on like this .
Now the fact his sister is at one school and him at another will cause a lot of unsettled behaviour and competition . I can only see this as a bad thing and no good can come from it .
I stupidley thought he would be given a place with his sister on the grounds they are siblings :(
I've no idea what I can do and am quite upset I don't even have the heart to tell them .any advice welcome .
Just to add I also have 17 month old twins that have not slept at all and are quite boisterous it's the reason we have not yet got to do the 12 week course and another reason he's not got an automatic place .

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Original poster
Boohaven · 28/02/2015 22:50

Thank you :)
I'm going tomorrow to arrange the course for them.
I've told ds and dd and both are quite upset , more my dd bless her .
I wasn't aware the school will arrange the appeal
Also it's nice to know that 15th is not the end of the world .
I'm hoping they can start the course quite soon I've spoken to my boss today as I work evenings and I've been given the go ahead to start later to fit in with the classes .

OP posts:
admission · 28/02/2015 20:56

Boohaven,
You are making the right decision to look at the other school carefully but you should as a first priority accept the school offered. If you do not do that you have no school place and the LA have done what legally they have to do.
Being 15th o the waiting list is not the end of the world as there is quite often substantial movement after the initial allocation. There are a significant number of private secondary schools in the Manchester area and many parents will have applied for a place at a state school as a safety net, so you could find that a good number of pupils do not take up their offer of a place.

You should also decide exactly what you are going to do. I would appeal for a place in the school. As a catholic school the school will be responsible for arranging an appeal. Normally faith schools subcontract the appeal to the LA, as they are better set up to handle the situation.
When it comes to the appeal, the best cause of action is to make a case based on firstly having an older sibling in the school, secondly the issues that your DS will face given his issues and thirdly that the intention is that your son will become a practicing catholic.
OK in theory the latter will have zero weight in terms of admission appeals but actually until you raise it, you will never know. I would also look seriously at the possibility of making sure that both children are doing the 12 week course ASAP and certainly by the time the appeal comes about.

Floggingmolly · 28/02/2015 16:08

Maybe he'll get a place on social needs grounds. Good luck Flowers

Original poster
Boohaven · 28/02/2015 16:03

Would like to say a huge thank you for all your help . I think I would still be say crying in a mess if it was not for you lot xxxx

OP posts:
Original poster
Boohaven · 28/02/2015 16:02

I've just found out that none rc children are down the list so he's 15th in line for a place .
It's not a mistake on there part so I need to now prove to them that he will be better at that school than the other ,
I'll see if there is any way I can have a meeting at both schools to descuss the situation , I'll need to visit the school he's been given to make sure if he needs to go there that I'm happy with the school if not I'm not sure what I'll do

OP posts:
tiggytape · 28/02/2015 15:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LIZS · 28/02/2015 15:41

Check the original admissions criteria, the info you have been sent should correspond.

Original poster
Boohaven · 28/02/2015 15:32

But no mention how many of these are rc and none rc .

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Original poster
Boohaven · 28/02/2015 15:30

There are 4 children in the siblings not in catchment , and 6 in distance and 5 waiting list catchment And 31 in no siblings and out of catchment

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Floggingmolly · 28/02/2015 15:22

They usually are, LIZS

Floggingmolly · 28/02/2015 15:21

Ok, but you'll come below all those categories for Catholic children. Does the letter give figure for non Catholic siblings in catchment, or did were any admitted at all?

LIZS · 28/02/2015 15:21

Are Non Catholic siblings ranked lower than out of catchment Catholic siblings?

Original poster
Boohaven · 28/02/2015 15:15

No we are in catchment and have a sibling in the school .

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Floggingmolly · 28/02/2015 15:13

It has to be fairly self evident what category he's in...

Floggingmolly · 28/02/2015 15:12

Are you out of catchment as well as being non Catholic?

Original poster
Boohaven · 28/02/2015 15:09

After reading it again I've worked it out but its not staying which category he is in .
According to the chart all pupils with sibling got in , all pupils in the catchment got in it starts to split when we got to siblings out of catchment

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meditrina · 28/02/2015 14:56

It ought to be reasonably clear from the letter. Does the table show number of applicants in the category, and the category in which they had to tie break (typically by distance)?

Does it not say anywhere on the letter which category your DS is in? If not, then the communication is inadequate (which is annoying, but not an appeal-winning thing, though you want to show the Admissions Authority as incompetent to strengthen parts of your case).

Original poster
Boohaven · 28/02/2015 14:47

How do I find out what category he is in ? There is a list/table chart that's been sent but I don't understand how I work out where he is on it .
I can speak to the specialist about how this will affect him but time is now againt us again as it takes time to to get a meeting .
I don't have anyone to contact as things have been so settled after the school and home change the other year that there has been no need for any intervention .

OP posts:
AntiquityIsOld · 28/02/2015 14:36

What is the sibling rule? Can't you appeal with that? A non-RC friend did that for RC primary and the head was very supportive because as a Catholic he thought it was important to keep family together. She won.

meditrina · 28/02/2015 14:29

Firstly, I'm sorry that this is all so thought for you.

But secondly, you need to separate out the school's admissions process from all the other Stuff which is going on.

As your DS was not Catholic during the application process, then that is probably a sufficient reason for him not to have secured a place. But still check your letter against the criteria (is your DS in the right category, but as non-Catholic sibling, this will be pretty low down the list).

Does the school have an exceptional social/medical need criterion? Did you try to use it in the original application? This might be the angle to go for - even if short of EHCP, there are needs that you could show were best met in this school. Would you be able to get suitable documentation from HCPs which states clearly why this school, and only this school, can meet his needs?

Then, as this is for an older child, you can also use the 'balance of prejudice' argument: what it is about this school that your DS really needs for his education (that is unavailable elsewhere locally) such that any downside for the school in admitting an extra pupil is far less than the harm to your DS in having an education without those features (music? subject availability? drama?)

Original poster
Boohaven · 28/02/2015 14:15

My dd probably not . They keep having a laugh about her having to have him in the same school again .
My son it will , without having to tell everyone my long winded past he will feel left out , there are a few reasons it's still in the intending to do . One of which is a battle with my ex about it , my son wanted to join in with us and be baptised and come church but my ex has been a pain about it as he has no beliefs and thinks he should have waited till 16 to chose .
This with the farther going away twice when I have called to make appointments , getting told of on the phone by the security for saying his name and not farther and my pnd had led to the huge delays .

OP posts:
meditrina · 28/02/2015 14:11

"Quite a few areas have got their offers out"

Really? That's very wrong of them. The whole point of having a national offers day is so all offers are made together. It all went to rats in recent years when different LAs did different things around a Sunday. But there really isn't a need for Councils to breach the national offers this time round. Very shoddy.

chantico · 28/02/2015 14:08

Sorry, I never meant to intend that it should!

I meant only that demonstrating membership of the RC church is required for the higher admission categories, and being a recent convert can be enough. It all depends on that individual school's published criteria. (I think I may have misread an earlier post to think it was worth saying at all).

I think it's the case that published criteria must be followed in all Home Nations, but I'm not terribly familiar with procedures in Scotland or NI (or when Offers Day in those nations and Wales). Or is this an in-year application?

18yearstooold · 28/02/2015 14:08

Quite a few areas have got their offers out

Leeds were released on Thursday

Op you need to review the priority criteria -how far down the list is sibling priority for non catholic applicants?

Does your DS have a statement or EHCP? Is that school particularly good for SEN? Or do you just want him to go because of the sibling link?

Floggingmolly · 28/02/2015 14:06

Is it really that important to either of them that they go to the same school?

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