Latymer Upper vs KCS / St Paul's

Yes, in the Senior School hockey runs alongside football in the spring term for the boys. The girls in the 6th form play hockey both terms.

Does KCS still play hockey? When my brother was there hockey was the second term sport rather than football.

I can see how some sporty DSs could be duped into thinking the sport is wonderful and that's not fair. Hampton seemed the best for those where sport is very important.

My DS is one of those naturally progressing from a state primary at 11+. We are very grateful for the opportunity as there would have been very little chance in previous years. I definitely understand the concern about stretching the facilities over two new year groups. Hoping they have thought about this and planned out how it's all going to gel together.

Thanks all for these responses. I think my DS could be happy at King's. He isn't very sporty but loves getting stuck into everything else. Sports were definitely talked up at the open day. We were mainly impressed by the range of options available and the fact that they can choose which sports to try on their games afternoons.

Yes rugby is the premier sport at Kings's played in the autumn term, which they are clear about and which the website makes clear. Football is offered as a secondary sport in the spring term only (along with hockey).

Rugby's popularity has not declined at King's over the last 10 years as far as I can see, why would it?

King's is well known for not being as sporty generally as some other schools e.g. Hampton (& whitgift especially), and it doesn't pretend to be.

DS is sporty and this was something we considered very very carefully. Several families we know also weighed this up carefully, and one chose Hampton over King's for the ability to play football all year round. We chose King's in the knowledge that it is more academic than sporty and that other schools are sportier. Perhaps one might be disappointed by the sports provision if one hadn't fully appreciated the situation in advance.

Having re-read spinningmums comments I missed the original comment about pastoral care which IME has been very good, but I was agreeing with her general sentiments about the A level/IB transition not going very smoothly and the constant changes.

The sport is a problem and my football figures speak for themselves. Yes it is a very academic school but at open days it does present itself as being super sporty as well and it isn't. It is primarily a rugby school and it's resources are focused on rugby despite the game's dwindling popularity. E.G. The Y11s were not allowed to take football as an option in the Autumn term because it left too few to play rugby.

The new intake concerns me because it will mean stretching the facilities and already limited PE staff to cover another 2 separate year groups.

We were particularly told on open days about how strong the school was for football when we visited and it just isn't true. Sport is very important to our family, if we were only interested in academics DS would have gone to Westminster. I was given the impression that KCS supports sport at the same level as St Pauls and Hampton and it doesn't.

This is a public forum and it is an important point to cover when looking at schools. Future parents interested in sport particularly football should ask the right questions at open days e.g. What extra curricular sport is available to everybody outside of normal games lessons? What football tournaments does the school enter? What are the sporting options for each year group for each term?

IME the pastoral care at the senior school is excellent, DS has lovely friends, likes his teachers, loves the surroundings and is doing very well academically; He is very happy just very disappointed with the football as are a lot of his friends.

KCS is a fantastic school - I'm very surprised by the negative comments above. I have been a parent at the school for many years and have only heard positive talk from fellow parents.

This is what I thought, kcsmum. Curious to hear if anyone else has a view on this.

Thank you Longdaze and Kcsmum. I'm so delighted to hear of happy boys and parents! I became a bit worried earlier from some of the replies.

Apple - anecdotally, most would says St Pauls for sciences & maths, KCS for humanities and languages but I haven't considered or investigated this myself and therefore have no opinion to offer!

Interesting thread. I am curious to know if anyone thinks that there is a humanities vs quants bent to one or the other (St. Ps vs KCS)?

As another KCS parent, like Longdaze I don't really recognise this description of KCS either - like so much in life, the picture isn't really black and white.

In addition to academics there were other issues at play regarding the boys weeded out after AS recently. Actually the school seems to me be quite good at supporting those who struggle a bit academically and still lets them take exams (and get e.g. a D...) which rumours suggest some other schools don't allow. Overall I've found pastoral care to be very good.

That said, there was a serious issue with the last academic year's upper sixth which, with the benefit of hindsight, the school handled badly - this caused some staff turnover including the loss of some fantastic individuals which was a great shame. Staff turnover happens however... And things have subsequently settled down again.

The introduction of the new lower school is primarily in order to make the school more accessible to boys from state primaries. Who can argue with that! The lower school will run in parallel with the junior school at least until all current junior school boys have moved through the system and got what they signed up for - beyond that who knows, the school is saying no plans to merge but it's widely accepted they're probably being a bit disingenuous about that...

Very very few extremely wealthy Russians etc. Yes there's the odd one or two, and of course you notice them!, but statistically not very significant.

Sport is a bit of a weakness unfortunately. But it's an academic school and that's where the emphasis lies.

The headmaster isn't on sabbatical at the moment, but next term - he will return at the end of term and will be available over the summer to deal with the fall out from public exams. Not much goes on in the summer term anyway due to all the public exams, and the principal deputy is absolutely outstanding (in some ways she's probably better), so I don't think this is a big deal at all - but fair enough if others do.

Overall it's a forward-looking school which is willing to change and move forward with the times - although I can understand the point of view of wanting the school to stay the same as when you joined, I really like the progressive attitude and feel that most changes are a move in the right direction. E.g. I was delighted that they brought back A levels - very few boys are genuine all-rounders at this age, and many prefer to specialise e.g. in sciences or languages or humanities in a way which A levels allow and IB doesn't. And universities don't like IB for e.g. medicine. The fact that the majority now do A levels suggests that their reintroduction was definitely a good move.

Interestingly, from speaking to other parents, it does seem that boys' - and therefore parents' - experience of the school does vary to quite an extreme degree, depending on the nature of the child. (Perhaps this is the same at all schools..?) Boys who are confident, bright and musical or sporty or whatever, seem to be served extremely well - anecdotally however, less confident, middle-set boys might feel a bit invisible, and there are stories of some very sensitive, quiet boys having periods of being utterly miserable.

There are also stories of boys who were top at their prep or primary getting very depressed to find they are below average in a very bright cohort. Obviously this is not the school's fault, but something to bear in mind - personally I think KCS is an outstanding school, best suited to genuinely bright and confident boys (who may or may not be musical / dramatic / chessy / sporty / whatever, that doesn't matter so much), personally I wouldn't choose it for a hard-working plodder or a very very gentle, sensitive type. Just my opinion!

As a KCS parent, I really don't recognise the school being discussed above. Pastoral care is exceptionally strong, and sport is inclusive and plentiful (both in the Junior and Senior School).
The head is not yet on sabbatical - he will be away next term and my son's year is not full of wealthy Russians!
Also, the school has just appointed a new Head of North American Applications to advise pupils who are considering applying to university in the U.S. or Canada.

Hi KCS parents. My DS has an offer in the lower school. Why might KJCS parents be disgruntled about the lower school? I didn't think it would change their DS's experience in the junior school? Has the pastoral care really fallen fowl at the expense of getting results? That is sad to hear as its one of our main reasons for veering towards this school.

I had heard the same although to be fair my info is old and also came from someone I met at a drinks party and so have no way of assessing whether he was a crazer or not (a good criteria to try and apply before taking note of what is being said!). But he was very cheesed off with the sports provision (this was football), and said that effectively his son got excited once a year in September, went for trials, got told he wasn't good enough for the squad and that was it for another year. I got the impression the child in question was pretty reasonable, not a two left feet type at all, but there was no provision unless you were already really quite good. but as I say, old info.

Knowing what I know now about schools, alongside journey time, sport for all and whether there was a weeding out process are two things I would cast my beady eye over at the selection stage. Re the latter, even if you do not think it will ever apply to you (and honestly, be a bit careful with that assumption), it's quite disruptive to you if it's your DCs besties that it is happening to, plus it also changes the feel of the school. Interestingly I think the opposite is good because schools that do not weed out effectively have to super-teach their bottom level to ensure their stats look good. I have a DC in the bottom maths set of an academic school and I have absolutely no complaints about the level of attention she is receiving there, she is literally being attention-bombed into GCSE - it's a great place to be (un-MN sentiment!)

Spinning, I'm not surprised. For football Y11/Y12/Y13, that's about 450 boys,are mixed and the only extra training sessions available are to those in the top 2 teams, 22 boys, who should predominantly be Y13 pupils. It is ridiculous to have spent so much money on facilities (not money well spent as the pitches have been unplayable most of this year) when the school obviously doesn't have the funds to finance a full PE department, and boys don't have the opportunity to use them.

Sport and lack of PE staff is a huge issue. It starts in the jr school where clubs Are only for top 1/3 in last few years. This continues into the senior school. Many go outside the school to do their sport or to get coaching if they are not among the best. Seems they should support more options.

A friend who has a son at KCS has also commented that he has dropped out of all sport, having got fed up with not being selected for teams. Also the feel of the school is changing because of the huge numbers of extremely wealthy Russian and other foreign families. These are needed to pay the increasingly eye watering fees charged to pay for all these incredible new facilities, most of which your own DS won't get to use.

As another KCS parent I would second everything SPINNINGMOM has said.

I would also add that not all sport is taken seriously at KCS. Football in particular is under funded, and has very little access to the schools sports facilities despite being hugely popular. There is a shortage of specialist coaches and non-PE staff are drafted in from other departments to coach. KCS also doesn't enter the ISFA tournaments etc which is pretty standard at most schools. The focus is still on rugby despite a huge decline in popularity.

LU seem to be putting increasing support behind US applications. I suspect though that parents still use external consultants on top. The fact it is a bust school.with a lot of non academic stuff going on should help.

That said there will always be a few boys from various schools who transfer to Westminster at sixth form for their well oiled US application process.

St Pauls will send many more to the US. Not sure if that makes it harder or easier to get in from KCS. There is not really American University support at KCS but they recommend a consultant who can help.

As a parent at KCS it is worth noting a few things......

KCS is in transition. They are building some amazing new facilities. They are increasing their focus on Music and Drama. They have introduced A levels. They are getting better and better results every year. BUT......

The school is a very different place than it was when I decided to send my son there many years ago. They are very focused on the exam results and have started to "weed out" at all levels (even after AS!) to make sure they have the results they want. Pastoral care has decreased significantly in favour of results.

The school has just started a "lower" school which seems to make no sense as they have a junior school. KCJS parents are not happy about it.

They are struggling to juggle the IB/A level balance. There has been quite a bit of teacher turnover.

The headmaster is on sabbatical. I am not sure if this is as odd as I think it is.

All said....its a good school. Some good things happening but just different than what it was and not really sure where it is going.

Although all the schools send children to Ivies it is impossible to tell how many of those are legacies unless you know the families concerned. Some of the children attending will have very strong familial ties which should not be discounted. SPS has lots of boys applying each year and a good programme from what I understand.

I think the question you need to answer is which school do you and HE prefer? Do you have a preference for single sex vs coed. Are you interested in him having the option of the IB in the 6th form or are you happy with A levels. Which school suits his personality better? I think KCS is probably the "more academic" of the schools and I would go for that one personally. Well done to your DS. Good problem to have!