Private school - extra costs

,Isthis I have no problem accepting that you can find fees for £27600 although I suppose I was thinking £30k with extras but I very much doubt you'll find many with fees of "£20-25k as the norm for full boarding" (senior) anywhere in the UK.
Of course this begs a question what do you get for that extra £8-10k a year? Some costs are fairly fixed, teachers wages are a very big part of the budget of course and over the years I've often heard heads state that they're raising the fees to enable them to pay top wages to attract the best staff, but what don't you get for £8-10k less it's not just swimming pools and 300 acres of manicured lawns. Full boarding is expensive you need supervision 24/7, I know some schools employ grad students to do this especially on Sundays rather than teachers, others are now employing non qualified nurses in their medical centres especially over night, but these saving are pretty small in reality but where else do you save money? As most of these schools are charities they not for profit so the extra 8- 10k per pupil is not going to share holders. I'm pretty convinced it's not food, kids are £35k+ pa schools are not tucking into foie gras everyday a week whist those in £25k pa schools eat bargain basement chicken nuggets.

Indrid Win Coll sends parents an annual report thing, in it there is a break down of the accounts. Obviously it doesn't break done the spending on paper clips, oars and eggs but it does details quite few things including where money comes from; fees, donations etc and where the money goes including how much is spent on bursaries and how that money is raised.

There are many much less than 30k. I don't know how far or extensively you have looked. Off the top of my head I can think of several girls schools whose full school including boarding fees are much less than 30k at senior level- Truro high school, Malvern st James, Adcote. I'm sure if I did an internet search I could quickly find many more. Average full boarding fees last year were £27,600, I remember it being that figure because it was the first time average boarding fees exceeded average income of £26k

I don't think a school will send out copies of their accounts, but they can easily be found on their website I would imagine.

Milly actually my 'begrudging' comment was not aimed at you, but was more a reference to happy saying that her friend, who is an Eton mum, had grumbled about it. Judging from Tony Little's letter last summer, in which he specifically reassured parents that bursaries are not paid for out of current fees, presumably she is not the only one!

Are there? Every school I've ever looked at anywhere n the UK wants at least 30k.

Also, there are many many schools that offer full boarding for around £24k per year. Outside of the south east fees in the £20-£25k is the norm for full boarding. Kenlees school fees are not unusually low.

Interesting Milly I thought this was standard nowadays, they are of course also available on line and often details money spent on bursaries.

Comparing fees of a girls day/boarding boarding school in the South, with no male alumni, and Manchester Grammar is clearly looking at apples and pears!

Errr, Withington girls school does not have a male alumni . I didn't just compare one school, I compared two (a boys and a girls) and did state that I was only discussing day schools because that is all that we have locally. I have since looked at other schools and most of them seem to have funding streams for their bursary funds other than fee income. One even states that where external charity funding is applicable they will apply for this on the families behalf.
It actually isn't difficult to investigate and find out how bursaries are funded at a particular school, if you failed to do that and begrudge fees being used to fund bursaries then that is entirely your own fault.
Most families on bursaries only get part bursaries so they are still putting money into the schools coffers which it might otherwise be without (not all private schools are fully subscribed). If a school has 20 places in a class and only 17 full fee paying students then it makes sense for them to offer bursaries to fill the other three places, even if those 3 places are at an average of 50% bursary. Some money is better than no money.
If a school is offering bursary places despite being fully subscribed with full fee paying parents then the school is doing so because it can see an advantage in having the bursary students.
I feel that you are projecting your own dissatisfaction with a specific school onto this thread and are assuming that the majority of schools are run in the same way and that the majority of parents feel the same way that you do. It's nice to see several full fee paying parents on the thread who have specifically stated that they don't feel the same as you and don't begrudge part of fee income supporting the bursary funds.

We didn't get accounts every year. I have never had accounts from prep schools or senior schools.

"For many years no-one knew bursaries were funded from fee income. They're hardly going to tell you this are they?"
Their accounts will tell you what they do with their income, including any info about bursaries, we get sent an overview of the accounts every year. I'm aware they make dry reading and that many probably don't read them (my DH always reads them very carefully) but they are worth casting a quick eye over or getting a more interested relative to give you a quick break down, not only do they tell you where your fee money is actually being spent but also how as importantly in this day and age who solvent or not the school is.

Hello OP

Something similar has happened to us, quite often you will find that the uniform isn't always so expensive. I know at dds school it isn't any more so than state, in fact cheaper if you'll believe that.
Have you checked whether such a high bursary carries any entitlement to help with uniform. If it is a charity school it may well do.

No. Assuming the above comment is aimed at me....I didn't begrudge some of it, I feel that 10% is too high. It is compromising the school because numbers are down and savings are being made which impinge on everyone. However, it is not my decision after I handed over my fees. For many years no-one knew bursaries were funded from fee income. They are hardly going to tell you this, are they? It was only when the number of bursaries greatly increased that parents started wondering where the money was coming from. Not just me, by the way!

Comparing fees of a girls day/boarding boarding school in the South, with no male alumni, and Manchester Grammar is clearly looking at apples and pears! If I had my time again, for a number of reasons, I would have sent my DDs elsewhere. But you don't know about everything when you sign on the dotted line. If you are getting boarding for £24,000 a year, Kenlee, well done.

Schools we've been involved in have had separate bursary funds which are investment based or from specific sources ie. Church funded and go towards a discount for those qualifying pupils.

As payers of full fees I certainly would not begrudge some of that money being used to fund bursaries for other children (although some parents clearly do!) However, if a school were to rely on this as the sole revenue source to fund bursaries it would both severely limit the number of bursaries which could be offered, and probably compromise the running of the school as well.

So if you agreeded to send your DC to said school. You expect to pay that amount. What the school does with your money from there on is not your concern.

I agree with this entirely.

haha typo....happy.....

Kenlee I know of few if any boarding schools with fees of 24k don't you mean 34k?.

Indrid it was the case in 2008ish (maybe even 2006 time sadly flies) my friend was telling me in an annoyed tone about the letter she'd just received from Eton stating they were going to do it.

I'm puzzled I know fees are often around 15K for day school and around 24K for boarding. When you applied for the school they did clearly print the fees on the prospectus. So if you agreeded to send your DC to said school. You expect to pay that amount. What the school does with your money from there on is not your concern. You have paid for your DC to study at a school which ethis you best fits your child. The school having children on scholarship or bursaries has nothing to do with the parents paying full fees.

My DH always tells our DD. Its not where they come from that matters. Its what they will become that does.

I believe Eton does or used to use fee money to provide bursaries. I remember quite a few years ago a friend with a DS at Eton slightly moaning about it when she received a letter explaining they were going to do this.

Just for the record this is not the case now, and hasn't been since DS has been there. The money for bursaries comes from active fundraising, to which OEs are major contributors. The current fees go towards the running of the school.

Talk to the school. IME rich kids tend not to go on school trips as they have far more exciting places to go. Indeed schools can struggle to get sufficient numbers for even the best trips. Ditto overseas students just want to get home. I would not see anyone noticing, let alone judging if your dd did not sign up for a trip. However this is London and elsewhere might be different.

Actually not being the child who dashes off to the chalet, yacht or holiday villa can pay off if your child then gets invited to accompany others on their family holidays...

Check what the school expects and ignore the rest. Your DD will soon discover that having a supportive family means she is better off than some of her peers.

Logically there's surely going to be a continuum. There will be people who can budget for fees including a bursary contribution, and people who need a significant bursary. But unless the school is to end up with a weird gap in its demographics, there will also be people in between who can only just afford fees, and might not be able to pay a sudden increase caused by the school wanting to increase its bursary provision. Saying those people should go elsewhere is silly! Indeed we're in that middle ground, being offered a bursary which is small enough that it can be read as "we don't expect you to contribute to other people's bursaries, so we'll let you off that part of the fees".

In the end, I think, if present trends continue, fees are going to have to be thought of as a sliding scale, where only a tiny minority pay top whack, and everyone else can be thought of as having some level of bursary, i.e. paying somewhere lower than the top of the scale. That might actually be a healthier situation than the current one. Evaluating schools on how many 75-100% bursaries they give may be counterproductive, if it results in them giving bursaries only to those who need at least 75%, leaving a swathe of people who'd need less than that with no way to go to the school. Fortunately, at least some schools are alive to such issues and resist those political pressures.

MillyMollyMama "Yet people with sports talent, music talent, drama talent etc got all the lessons for free even if the parents were rich" - if some of the parents were rich then their dc were receiving scholarships/allowances and not bursaries. Bursaries are means tested and quite often involve a home visit as part of the assessment.

I wouldn't worry about the overseas trips op - yes, one or two trips a year may be offered but by no means is every child going. DS1 is in Year 8 and going on his first overseas trip this year - cost about £500 - less than a quarter of the year group are going. Another school has a ski trip - 70 dc going across four year groups - so 400 dc not going from those year groups! Many dc just don't fancy it, some are going skiing/somewhere exotic with their families instead and others can't afford it - I doubt if anyone cares. Have a look at the school's website again op - there are usually photos from all the trips - count how many dc are in the group photos - often it's less than 20.

I am glad people contributing here have so much money they don't care what they pay

Where did I (or anyone) say that? I said that we knew what the fees were and did our sums accordingly. But I don't begrudge a proportion of those fees going towards bursaries, if indeed that is the case.