Super selectives: how much value do they add?

OP you will get a fair few posts from those with no DC in super selective.

You may wonder where their experience actually comes from...

I have a DS at a selective school ( independent ).

The main pro is that he is being educated alongside ability peers.

I personally don't thin there is anything to be gained educationally or psychologically from sitting easily at the top of the pile. Better to be challenged, to find things hard, to understand what it is to graft.

And just to bust a few myths;

There are all different types of kids at the school; sporty ones, geeky ones, cool ones, loud ones, quite ones. They just all happen to be clever.

The kids are not all stressed. DS is so laid back he's almost horizontal . DD is far more stressed in her mixed ability school. It's just her nature ( drama llama).

They don't get lots and lots of homework. Dd gets more.

My Godson went to one of the schools on your list (the boys school obviously). His parents often told me how the Head would talk about the school being for the brightest of the bright, and the best of the best. There would be a long list of how academically excellent they were, and how many points they left with after A levels.

In comparison, my dc were at small town catholic comp. The head would talk about the importance of giving something back, and contributing to your local community. Lots of talk of your internal moral compass. (And then mention how well the school did academically)
At Christmas, Spiffins would put on a concert in a very prestigious venue
featuring the best singers and musicians the school had.

Small town would put on a church service with the 3 school choirs and both orchestras, and in school, the sixth formers would write and produce their own panto for parents& students.

At the end of the year, Spiffins results were always excellent and the points per pupil very high. However, this included the points from the General Studies A level that every student has to sit, a qualification that is not recognised by most (all?) good universities.
In comparison, small town comp does not offer qualifications that are not respected externally. It offered A levels and a couple of (subject specific) BTECs . Students took whichever was most appropriate, and some students would only take 3 A-levels. Or just the BTEC.

Both my DSs either matched or exceeded my Godsons A level results. None applied to Oxbridge, Godson declared after 7 years of working at the pace Spiffins set, he wasn't willing to put himself through another 3 years of that. For DS Oxbridge don't offer the course he wanted to study.

The moral? All had a great quality education academically. But I feel mine benefitted more from the wider range of students, and the focus on developing the whole person rather than a narrow academic focus.

Also - at least some universities give lower offers to those from state schools compared to those from private schools. So even if they do have an academic advantage in terms of grades they may not actually give an advantage in terms of uni offers. And once you've been to uni, A level grades are more or less irrelevant anyway.

I went to one of the superselectives you name, and although it was fine for me, I don't think I would want to send my daughter there. All the focus was on exam results and so many people seemed to end up with confidence issues, eating disorders etc and there wasn't much support for them. And I don't think they did much extra to engage pupils' interest in subjects - all the focus was on results rather than interesting learning around the subject.

I couldn't comment on whether your DD is likely to get better results at a super selective than elsewhere. But if she is bright then she will get good results anyway so I would say it is worth looking at what the schools offer outside of the academics. Eg personally I think it is worth going for mixed over single sex.

You ask for views from parents who've gone through the system. That's me :) My approach was not to overthink it but to accept a place at the local state super selective (also our nearest secondary as it happens) if each child passed the test. They all did, so they went. They're all different characters but the school has a great reputation and all schools have a spectrum so I'd just go with it, and not get too worked up.

I suspect I know what your local comp is - choose it! You'd be mad to pay for one of the others (yes I know Tiffin is state). I doubt your child's GCSE grades would be any better.

Hi Alsoflamingo - sounds logical but there's a conundrum: how to you know if your DC will be in the top 25% when each school is eager to attract the "best" candidates and therefore has an incentive to tell parents their DC will do well? The official line is that a school would not offer a place to a child who they think will not do well - but how well is well?

I think the only way to decide is by knowing your own DC: as Essexmum rightly pointed out, a sensitive child may do better at a less "academic" school (whatever that means) where entrance competition is less fierce, because that is an indication how well they will do compared to their cohort. Being near the top will give them confidence and reassurance that they "belong".

it's more tricky with a highly competitive child: will they do better in a super-competitive environment where everyone is like them and they are incentivised by the competition, or will they break under the sudden awareness that others are, and probably will always be, "better"? Will they be bored at a less "academic" school and become lazy? Or worse: become arrogant thinking they are "the best"?

And if the "super selective" school is indeed the right choice for competitive kids, I guess the best way to ensure happiness (as well as success) is to ensure that DC is in the top quarter in at least one subject, and accepts that you can't win all....

I have heard there is some compelling data out there which show children do better academically when they are towards the top of the pile in ability. IE - unless a child is a genius then he/she is likely to do better in a more mixed ability school. If the child would be sure to be in the top 25% of a highly selective school then go for it - will probably be good for the child. Just wish I could remember where the study was. A couple of years ago I think.

I don't think that is a question to which there is an answer. It would depend on the school and the child.
I have two DC at two different "superselective", dreadful term, grammar schools and they are very different. DS's is super competitive, some boys do struggle at the bottom and support for those struggling does not seem very good, but it is a better fit for DS than the local comp where his geekiness would I feel have made him stick out like a sore thumb. DDs on the other hand is less pressured and options and support adjusted as required and is I think the better school of the two.
We sent DD to the grammar because we felt it was "the small nurturing pond" rather than to the 300 intake comprehensive where we felt she would get lost, but that was the particular schools we had as options.
I think you need to get opinions on the particular schools themselves and then pick which you think would suit your DD best.