to EPQ or not to EPQ?

Essays are a very important part of MFL teaching as that is what happens hand in hand with the language acquisition at a higher level. In DC's case essays etc are fine, it is more a question how to balance an interest in a MFL without narrowing down other future higher education choices or taking on too much.

goinggetstough
Your comments are entirely valid when thinking about whether st stick with the A2 or do an EPQ.
The die is not yet cast so the more views the merrier.

Sorry my above comments are not about the thread topic.

I do though have a DS who did an EPQ and he found it very useful preparation for university. He researched and wrote his first draft in the summer holidays before year 13. This meant it didn't take up too much time in the autumn term.

talkin I think the problem is with the GCSE syllabus and necessarily the A level one. So much of the GCSE syllabus involved learning stuff, and then writing it out as a pre-prepared essay. IMO that is not really learning a language as if you have a good memory you can do well. Grammar etc is very important and this is often shown at AS/A2 level as essays have to be written and not learnt chunks regurgitated. Your DD's syllabus may not have been like this but I certainly know a few DCs who have had major problems at AS level because of it. I am not a language teacher but have a DD who did 2 MFL at A2 level.

Summer
The MFL speaking and listening is fine - and she's aiming for a high grade, but the essays are just a drag - and will get worse next year. Interestingly her friends doing that and other MFL at that and other colleges and different exam boards are finding the same sort of problem - so its clearly the curriculum more than anything else. these are all kids who got A and A* at GCSEs btw

Thanks Talkin. One of my DCs is facing a similar dilemma hence my interest. We were wondering about conversation biased lessons as an extra out of school but not sure about the time commitment.

Summerends
She is doing 5 AS (2 maths, 2 science and an MFL) - the Further maths was always planned to be just for year 12 and for what she wants to do, the AS is plenty (so long as she gets a cracking grade).

The MFL is sad - and I have to be careful what I say as there are lurkers on these threads who know who she and her teachers are. Basically there is too much asinine grammar and essay writing and not enough enjoyment of the language and culture.

Therefore the decision is brewing to go for three really good A2's levels rather than four less good.

The EPQ therefore allows an interesting academic compromise.

Apologies for diverting this thread a bit but Talkin I am intrigued why your DD is thinking of dropping from 5 to 3 A levels (with EPQ). Is it a change of interests or the workload? Or will she already have finished maths by the end of year 12 so basically just dropping one?

For what it's worth, my DD regrets embarking on her EPQ. It seemed like a good idea at the time for all the reasons highlighted on this thread, but it didn't even get a mention in her personal statement, and it doesn't form part of any of her offers. I have spent what feels like months tripping over the books on her EPQ topic in piles on the dining room floor and she still isn't close to completing it. She will complete it, because she says her supervisor has devoted lots of time to helping her, but if she had her time again, she would definitely have stuck to other ways of demonstrating research skills etc.

Yes that's precisely what I meant about following the spec Td, I was just being too lazy to write it :)

I think half the time schools don't have a clue. I've noticed a strong and consistent pattern of the EP not being used for interview, at least in humanities, for precisely the reasons you state. On the other hand (warning: single example) DS was asked about his EP at all his medicine interviews except Oxford. But those were all more straightforward and conversational, so rather different.

Good luck to your DS Brenda.

Buried in the comments here are references to following the specification. This is really important - the actual content of the writing of the report ( if indeed it is a report rather than a "thing" or performance he produces) was a relatively small part of the overall mark. More marks (in my DD's EPQ board at least) went on coming up with and refining the idea she investigated, dealing with problems encountered in the research etc, the presentation and ways she handled the questions from her audience and her evaluation of her completed report. She said probably the best bit of advice from her supervisor was to make the title a question which she then tried to answer using different published viewpoints (hers was science, about cancer drugs) and her own conclusion. This made it easier to evaluate ( some sources from press arguably too simplistic, medical journal articles possibly too hard to understand/obtain) as well as avoiding the trap of it becoming a narrative report only.

DDs school made students choose their topic before the summer between year 12 and year 13, to encourage them to do some research during the summer and also so they had something concrete to say in their PS if relevant to their uni subject. School also said at a parents meeting before UCAS that EPQs were brilliant for uni that interviewed (clearly referencing Oxbridge but also relevant for drama courses and architecture etc). Certainly though not one of DDs friends who interviewed for Oxbridge were asked about their EPQ - apparently because both unis are aware that not all school offer the EPQ so it would be unfair to ask about it, and also because they wanted to test the students with stuff they didn't know rather than allow the student to talk about "something they'd studied at depth earlier" . Don't know if that is a general approach though - could just be none of the interviewers were interested in the topics chosen!!

DS did his in Yr 12. He's now in Yr 13. It was a lot of work and he's going for Science courses at uni so they dont take into account his (very good) grade.

DS has said on a few occasions it's not worth the effort but it has been a massive help for him in writing his UCAS personal statement, uni interviews and helped him get relevant work experience too. He is now advising his younger brother to do one s can't be that bad.

They really need to be interested in the subject matter though becuase their life is going to become a bit immersed in it for a while!

My undergrad dissertation wasn't linked in any way at all, but it's an embarrassing read years later, especially in the context of my own DCs' undergrad dissertations which are far superior.

Surely its more like the fact that all of our third year Undergrad dissertations were linked to research areas of the department and later incorporated into mega projects

You take a topic that interests you and run with it - the fact that it crosslinks with other people's areas of interest, all the better .....

It really isn't in the same league as a PhD - just encourage him to wend his way to an idea that triggers interest and follow the spec.

DD2 did it and found it really useful (and enjoyable). It formed part of her offer from Bristol where she is now.
I can't believe there isn't something he finds interesting enough to study in more depth - it's limitless! If he's found something that someone else has written a thesis on, he could perhaps just take one aspect to look at more closely? Not that it matters. My DD looked at research a friend of ours is involved with and decided to do something along the same lines (along with work by other researchers involved in the same field).
The subjects studied within her peer group were wide ranging which made it interesting for the examiner!

Dd has enjoyed doing her EPq, though I'm not sure how much use it will be to her.

I would say he has already found a source, just because someone has studied it before it doesn't stop your son coming up with his own research and ideas, that is exactly what academic study at university is about.

Does it matter if someone's already written a thesis on it? I don't think they are expecting 17 year olds to come up with original research ideas! Dd's was on the problem of imposing western feminist values on Islamic cultures. Loads of stuff written about that already.

This link is interesting
www.aqa.org.uk/subjects/projects/aqa-certificate/EPQ-7993/delivering-the-epq

and for DD the PSC link to Soton Uni will make her options more amusing ...

DS1 rejected an EPQ in favour of completing four subjects to A2, maths and sciences. However he knew that he wanted to do a Maths degree.
DS2 in Year 12 is completely at sea about what to do next. He is doing 3 sciences and maths at AS. He loved History at GCSE but was steered away from mixing science and humanities by the sixth form. I think an EPQ would be very good for him.

Incidentally at university too it is very common for students to pick their own subject for essays, they are not always given titles, so it would be another useful experience.