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Original poster

Is it stupid to bring a complaint like this?

60 replies

var123 · 03/02/2015 11:01

Its not even that i want to complain. I am just beginning to feel that something isn't right and I want reassurance that my son is not being overlooked.

DS is high achieving in maths. He's at an outstanding secondary and everything went very well last year. However, this year (as far as I can tell):-

  1. He's only being taught level 7 work this year in class despite getting level 7a last year.
  2. I asked the teacher if he would sit a level 8 exam. She didn't reply for a week and then 10 mins before she wrote back to say yes, she emailed DS and some others with an invitation to do 2 hours of level 8 work with her out of class hours.
  3. The teacher is taking up to a week to reply to any email I send her. All other teachers reply same day usually and within 48 hours at most.
  4. DS won an award last year so i know he's one of the most able mathematicians in the school, yet I learned that he's been excluded from G&T opportunities. It can't be behaviour.
  5. the teacher has never given him one of the daily class awards for good work or good behaviour, despite the fact that even she says he does all the work easily and his behaviour is never an issue.
  6. The teacher refused to give me a parent's evening appointment. then she took a week (and a reminder email) to send me a one line email which only said "keeping up with work in class well".
OP posts:
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OhYouBadBadKitten · 04/02/2015 08:52

I really dislike it when they tie in class participation with how far they stretch them. Some children are quiet and it is perfectly alright and normal to be quiet. However the child and the parents have to really really accept that and be comfortable with it, because unfortunately some extroverts don't seem to understand that being introvert is perfectly ok.

It is also normal for some children not to bother putting their hand up when they know all of the answers - some just don't feel the need to show off. But it is a good skill to learn, in the work place you often need to be able contribute, even if it is done in a quiet and occasional way. Have you explained that it helps the rest of the class if he shares his thoughts?

Dds school also set year 8 and 9 targets, based solely on testing on entry. It was a bit bonkers really.

Original poster
var123 · 04/02/2015 08:39

Thanks for all your replies and sorry for not being more appreciative, LLjkk.

I probably am a bit anxious but its not really to do with Ds at all. There's other stuff going on in my life which is quite stressful.I think its just creeping into how I write about everything. But the teacher's non-communication was annoying me a bit yesterday.

The school does set year 7, year 8 and year 9 targets based on what they see in the first couple of months of year 7. I don't know why and I don't think it makes much sense, that they don't review their targets in light of unexpectedly rapid or slow progress. DS is good at maths and his target is to go up by one sub-level. He struggles massively with other subjects and missed his target by a whole level last year. However, his target didn't change and he's expected to go up 5 sublevels this year.

Two weeks to reply is incredibly slow for anyone, in any kind of business or profession. I'm glad I have nothing to do with your school, Caronaim.

Anyway, I got a reply from the teacher late yesterday evening. It was a good answer. I now understand what is going on with his SEN and that DS is extremely quiet in class. She told me that she gives the G&T opportunities to those who are a bit livelier because she can see that they really like the subject.

Now the question is what will make DS speak up more? Greater self-confidence and a personality change is the answer. The other element is that he is now bored because he is finding the work so easy. The teacher doesn't know this - I only found out myself in the last week.

I've been fighting against this low self confidence/ self esteem since he was 2. DH and I have tried everything. I could write a book about what we've done to help. The only thing that really does help is if he has friends who are more outgoing than he is. That combined with words of encouragement from his teachers and us seem to do the trick. But if anything bad happens - like the SEN diagnosis or a period of bullying - then he retreats back inside his shell where he beats himself up. Its an ongoing struggle.

Anyway, right bow, he is bored in maths because this year is all stuff he mastered a long time ago and that's contributing to him not joining class discussions. I should tell the teacher, but I am hesitating. The teacher has finally replied to my email about the G&T and the SEN. Noblegiraffe, and others, pointed out that its unfair and unrealistic to ask her to have to answer a series of emails from me. then there is the question of whether she could do anything anyway.

OP posts:
Quitethewoodsman · 03/02/2015 23:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MillyMollyMama · 03/02/2015 22:35

Two very bright mathematicians I know had lessons with older children because they were so talented - and that was in a grammar school!!! There is no way, op, that a school sets a year 8 target at the beginning of year 7. The teacher should be setting his target by marking and evaluating his current work . Do you ever look at his work books to see what his goals are? If the work is too easy, it is possible the school is not meeting his needs and I would still go and see the head of maths.

As for schools replying within 10 working days, by today's standards that is slow . A holding note is fine if something needs more investigation, but nothing for 2 weeks is unacceptable

Caronaim · 03/02/2015 21:44

The teacher needs to divide her attention between all of all her classes. 10 working days is the standard for a reply for a letter/email. Extension should mean sideways not just forward. This is not treading water.

lljkk · 03/02/2015 21:30

sorry var123, I shouldn't have written lots.
It's just a different perspective. Give or take as you please.

Original poster
var123 · 03/02/2015 20:22

ive been on mn since 2009 and I know how it works. ljkk is making a valid point if I wanted to ask how to boost self esteem. I believe I know. Obviously one part is gettin ds to value what he does well. Maths is one of those things. Obviously there is a lot more to it.
What I don't want this to degenerate into is a critique of my parenting skills with the op lost.

OP posts:
lljkk · 03/02/2015 20:09

I thought you were concerned about your son's self-esteem.
That this was the underlying issue that concerns you.
I got impression that you felt that his lack of extension or recognition for math ability was damaging his self-esteem.
You mentioned other things about him that hamper his self-esteem.
I suggested that tackling those other things might be easier & get better results than extending his existing high skills.
It's just a line of logic.
A different way to look at the situation you're in & not happy about.
Which might be helpful yes I often wonder why I bother
What a waste of time if I said same thing as 99 other posters about your focus questions.
So more helpful in theory to point out a perspective you might want to consider indeed why did I bother?

You'll find MN is the land of unsolicited opinions.

Floggingmolly · 03/02/2015 20:04

If he doesn't get 8C, then how is he going to feel? How do you think he'll feel, and why are you so fixated on his Maths level?
I think lljkk's point is relevant, actually?

Original poster
var123 · 03/02/2015 19:59

sorry but I don't think that has got any relevance to whether I continue trying to my op.
tbh it feels like you are trying to find a way to criticize either my priorities or my parenting

OP posts:
lljkk · 03/02/2015 19:50

so what are you going about his social & emotional development (that has nothing to do with his great math skills)?

Original poster
var123 · 03/02/2015 19:30

or maybe what I do is pretty good? That would be constantly strive to boost his confidence and do what's best for him including but not limited to thinking about his academic, emotional and social development.

OP posts:
lljkk · 03/02/2015 19:13

He puts very little weight on his achievements and focuses on the things he struggles to do adequately.

I wonder if maybe instead of worrying about his fantastic maths, it would be better to devote your energy to finding ways to boost his confidence in other areas. So that he knows that adequate is fine for most things and that he can do a good job at other things. This might help him a lot more than pushing a threshold he's already very high performing on.

Original poster
var123 · 03/02/2015 17:40

G&T: I was using the govt top 10% definition. In real world english, I don't think he's either gifted nor talented, just very able (as you say). However, the same would apply to the vast majority of the other children in the G&T programs around the country too.

He already knows the work he gets in class and finds it quite straightforward. Hence the reason the teacher said he is having no problems (or whatever her phrase was). Its all stuff that he was able to do last year. I asked him this evening and he said he has learned a couple of new things this year, but that's it. And yes, he's finding it boring (but he's not so precocious as to make a fuss which is why, I suspect, the teacher has no interest him.)

OP posts:
NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 03/02/2015 17:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

noblegiraffe · 03/02/2015 16:15

You would be better off asking the teacher to ring you at X time after school than say that you will ring the teacher. It's not easy for teachers to hang around phones waiting for incoming calls, especially as you can't usually ring them directly and will have to go through reception. Much easier for a teacher to find a phone and ring you.

If the teacher does keep evading you then I would go to the HOD because it would be starting to get weird.

Can your DS ask her directly what paper he will be sitting? It's a bit weird that they are sitting their end of year exam in Feb.

SignoraLiviaBurlando · 03/02/2015 15:17

OP I think you are right to be on the case.
Unfortunately I have seen in state schools that indeed year 8s are lowest priority]. They rank behind Y11 - exam year, Y10 - will be exam year next year, Y7 - newbies, Y9 - will be making GSCE options. In prep schools they ARE the exam year (Common Entrance) and so have top priority. Big difference.

Original poster
var123 · 03/02/2015 15:00

Floggingmolly - pretty much he is. Its only 1 sublevel up.
I've had a quick scan of past papers and it looks like he's got three things to learn:-
more complex simultaneous eqns
adding powers
something else that I can't remember off the top of my head!

OP posts:
Floggingmolly · 03/02/2015 14:52

Level 8c is his target for the end of Year 8; he's not actually expected to reach it in his upcoming exam, is he? Confused
If he's been set those targets, it sounds like they are actually planning to cover the level 8 curriculum with him at some point during the year?
Is your fear of him failing based on not having covered it to date??

OhYouBadBadKitten · 03/02/2015 14:49

Sometimes you need to engage the Head of Department, or the Year Group leader if a teacher is being uncommunicative.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 03/02/2015 14:47

If you explain to him that he has hit the ceiling on the test and he can't possibly score any more, it's the test not him, will he not be ok with that? The tests are not an important measure at all.

It is perfectly possible to extend them without repeating basic maths skills. I seem to be saying this on a few threads at the moment, but have a look at the ukmt website. Even the British maths olympiad uses little more maths than that used in gcse and it's bloody hard.

Original poster
var123 · 03/02/2015 14:46

Yes, I could try to ring the teacher. well actually, I'd have to email her and ask for an appointment when I might ring her (which could be a problem giving her ability to promptly reply.

Maybe that's the next step, but I am wondering if its worth it because clearly the teacher does not wish to engage with me and attempt to get her to respond to emails have not been a success thus far. You can take a horse to water but you cannot make it drink, as they say.

People ask what i want. I want her to take notice of my son, treat him fairly. Will forcing her to talk to me help or hinder that?

OP posts:
OhYouBadBadKitten · 03/02/2015 14:43

Agreed with those who are saying why focus on levels? As a mathematician you'll know how limited the curriculum is. There is so much more to maths than in the gcse syllabus.
Ask the teacher whether they are doing the ukmt junior challenge in April, he should enjoy that. It may well be worth having a chat with her, but don't approach it from the point of view of demanding steaming ahead in the curriculum, instead go in with an open mind.

Original poster
var123 · 03/02/2015 14:38

I'd like to address the points about levels and extension work.

Ds has an upcoming exam. It will be the only time that he will be measured this year and his target is 8C. If he doesn't get 8C, then how is he going to feel, especially if he appears to have made no progress since last year? I am concerned about this because there are self-esteem issues (already described).

Secondly, extension work always gets touted as the answer. It sounds great, but what is it in practice? The children are still learning basic maths skills here. There isn't really much true extension work to be had. Its not like you can take it in a truly different direction. What "extension work" usually boils down to is practising previously learned skills using more steps. So, its just more interesting repetition.

I am not in favour of DS doing a GSCE early, so i do see the problem. But i do get tired of hearing about "extension work". Clearly I have seen quite a lot of it over the years and it seems like a way to tread water most of the time.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 03/02/2015 14:29

Gosh, notinaminute I'm sorry that you didn't like my suggestion that the OP try to get the teacher to ring her rather than go around the houses with email, nor my suggestion that she or the school make use of the UKMT mentoring materials for enrichment rather than accelerating through the curriculum in a manner that could cause problems next year.

By the way, every year group can't be a priority because that would make none of them a priority.

When your DC get into exam classes I'm sure they'll benefit from the extra effort and focus that they get.