Shouting teacher....

Cross posted. No, Hakluyt, I wouldn't. Other posters are right - ideally you shouldn't need to be shouting all the time. It loses its effect and is a sign that you don't have great control of the class. But teachers aren't perfect and it is well nigh impossible to have good control of certain classes.

In my last school I taught a very difficult class. They drove me nuts. I dreaded teaching them. I tried to be as positive and professional as I could. Was consistent and fair in my use of the school's rewards and sanctions policy. Even when being called a bitch to my face. But sometimes I shouted. So shoot me.

And thanks, emkana. I'm just so sooo weary of the endless teacher bashing. I'd like to see some parents/politicians/random complainers put into a difficult class of 16 year-olds and deal with the apathy, aggression, bad language without ever raising their voice.

And yes, there are more sensitive students in any school. Teachers usually deal calmly and compassionately with them because generally they aren't the ones who need shouting at. If they are very sensitive, to the point that merely shouting in their vicinity upsets them, then I fear that the playground or corridor would be a much more alarming place than the classroom. Kids make much more noise than teachers do.

Ok Hakluyt - bothered perhaps, rather than worked up. Presumably it bothered you, otherwise you wouldn't have started a thread about it.

It does remind me of my "Secondary Modern" days Hakluyt where Boys would routinely get told to "Come Here Now " Girls would be shouted at for looking a "Disgrace" then when nobody listened Teachers just shouting "Shut Up" with Fucking thrown in for good measure !.

I think, in a secondary school, there can be "shouty" teachers. I would agree with the OP that I am not in favour of it, but can understand that teachers are human beings and have different approaches.

Where I absolutely hate it, is in a primary school. We had a teacher in ours, that fortunately, my DD's avoided. She just spoke to children as if they were army recruits and barked out instructions at the top of her voice. There was fear in the classroom. She should have been in the army herself. All the children disliked her and no-one wanted to be in her class. Weak leadership did nothing about it, despite parental complaints. That is a real problem and sensitive children cried. It was not acceptable and if she had taught my children, I would have complained, loudly.

I think it depends.

If a teacher is screaming and balling all day and the kids are laughing; it means they're useless at discipline.

If it's the occasional well timed bellow, then it can often have the required impact.

Sorry to just be cheerleading again but holmes you get it exactly right

Fgs. I'd suggest that anyone who spent any time with large bunches of teenagers would realise that there are very, very few of them who would be remotely scared by a bit of shouting. Many of them, especially if it is, as the OP says, a rough school, will not give a monkeys. And therein lies the problem. The ones who do care and would be bothered are surely not the ones being shouted at!

Some teachers rarely need to shout. Lucky them. For many it is sometimes either necessary or at least understandable. It's about time people realised that in general, it is the behaviour and upbringing of children which causes disruption in classrooms, not the inadequacy of teachers. Between the unreasonable demands of the government, the poor behaviour of kids and the over-protective or unsupportive attitude of some parents, it's not surprising that teachers are leaving the profession in their thousands. And that's only the ones who are managing to get other jobs. There are many more who carry on but would love to quit.

I'm sure you are a supportive parent, OP, being a governor and all. But really - a teacher shouting is not something to get oneself worked up about. Walk a mile in their shoes perhaps.

Parents often find it difficult to get their own one or two children to behave. How they think teachers can do so with 30 kids and simultaneously deliver the curriculum, and apparently without even raising their voice is beyond me. Teachers are trained. They are not magic.

Agree with the shock tactic thing. very occasionally, I need to raise my voice. Looking back at the last 4 and a half years, I have done it around 3-4 times but should have done it another 3-4 times. It also depends on where you teach and instead of shouting, what else a teacher can do.

A teacher can give detentions, contact parents, refer to head of year or head of department etc and not much else. If some of these don't work then the teacher will have to revert to shouting.

I don't agree with shouting as it damages your voice but it works for some people.

I sometimes shout at my classes. Not because they are naughty but because they have got carried away in group work and are really noisy! I am right on the stairwell and it really echoes if the door is open. But I need to shout to be heard.
I also shout as a tactic if soneone is being particularly horrible - tends to be a loud shout of the name and that is enough (for example today a charming young lad whispered not so quietly to a young girl picking her pen up off the foor that whilst she was down there .... He didn't even get to finish his sentence due to my shouting of his name and was really embarrassed that I had heard and accepted his punishment after the lesson).
These days I don't know many teachers that really shout in pupils faces - but lots that have the odd signature shout. Sometimes it is an effective method and if not done often really serves its purpose.

What strategies would you recommend should be used?

Well if they were shouting that loudly then surely you could have heard what was being said and can judge if the actual words used were appropriate?

What curly haired said. Sounds like you haven't spent much time in a real secondary school.

Excellent post Curly.

I don't know whether to take your post seriously, OP! This is a secondary school. With teenagers. Who can get out of hand very easily. I'm sure my school isn't out of the ordinary, but some of the pupils there NEED shouting at for behaving terribly. It's amazing how quickly te behaviour of the whole class can get out of hand thanks to just one oR two people playing up and not being dealt with quickly enough.

I wish more teachers would shout instead of taking the airy fairy can't-be-bothered-raising-my-voice stance and letting the class run riot.

There is a place for targeted shouting in secondary schools. It's part of disciplining an unruly class. It's most effective when a teacher does it who is normally very laid back and is popular. The class know that if sir/miss shouts at them then they've gone too far.

If someone shouts for the slightest misdemeanour then it becomes meaningless. Or if they shout because they're stressed, the kids will quickly latch onto that and play up to that.

It sounds like you don't have much experience of tough secondary schools?

I am baffled that you can tell from hearing somebody shout three doors away whether it was end of tetherish or calculated.

And I really think there are far worse things a teacher can do than shout. Especially as we are talking mostly teenagers here. Do you think there are hordes of intimidated little children at the school? I really doubt it. Most children get shouted at at home at some point and cope.

I think calculated tactic shouting is far better than out of control shouting.

Out of control shouting is exactly that - someone has lost control, both of the classroom and of themselves. Not professional and not good.

Tactic shouting presumably gets results or you'd end up with out of control shouting. Plus the kids know the difference and a tactical shouter just ends up with a shouty reputation. You've said yourself that the kids like him.