St Paul's Girls' School spgs

Eastpoint The year of the English results debacle, although most of the reporting was of the C/D boundaries, a few of the indies (it was not consistent across exam boards) at the top of the league tables were also affected at the A*/A/B boundary, though not all went to the press . It affected English Lit as well as English Language and IGCSEs. Although it was a shock on the day within hours most schools seemed to have recognised it was political, that universities would be able to see that as well, sixth forms were taking people whose grades had dropped below those required / predicted, and schools counselling pupils to move on and show what they could do at AS, except apparently SPGS. Even Wycombe didn't make them retake.

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9497631/GCSE-results-university-places-at-risk-from-grades-drop.html

Holly Wow. I don't think anyone on here has made comments that the school is homogenously one no parent should consider. Clearly it is an amazing school for the right sort of girl, just saying that you need to be sure it is the right school for your DD because there are issues.

Nobody is doubting that the experience of either your or OPs daughters is a good one. But to disregard the experiences of other posters, and most are quoting direct experiences, as either sour grapes or urban myths is astoundingly dismissive, and reeks of illusions of superiority, not to mention selective blindness. I do hope that it in no way reflects the level of intellectual rigour your daughters should be being taught is required for the evaluation of subjective evidence. I fully understand dashing off a mumsnet post is not History A level but other people's experiences should never be dismissed. I am not going to quote the individual family stories because that might out families and girls which would be unfair but if you think there are no problems with competitive or lax parenting / drugs / eating disorders / binge drinking / exclusive behaviour / reckless sexual behaviour / girls feeling pressured at SPGS, as indeed has in part been acknowledged by the High Mistress (and as there is to varying degrees at other schools) you are very naive and are not getting the full story from your daughters.....

Wow, very defensive post indeed. Certainly a sense of superiority regarding "content" of homework. Why would you bother starting a thread about a school you are clearly very happy with. The school is v v oversubscribed and, from what I understand, has a very high acceptance rate so really needs no defending and selling to anyone.
Also, what a strange thing to suggest that people's views are formed from 'sour grapes'!? Why would you automatically assume that someone's negativity about the school is simply because their child didn't get through the entrance test - it may be hard for you to comprehend, but it SPGS really isn't everyone's first choice - far from it. Fwiw, I was very underwhelmed when I visited the school - the girls that showed us around were actually very uninspiring and quite honestly, I wouldn't have been "very proud to have called them my own" as you suggest in your post (maybe they were an anomaly?).
We decided against applying for various reasons, but my thoughts about the school certainly do not stem from a secret desire for my DD to be there.

And arrogant in the extreme

oops sorry for the typo "Their daughters" - obvs

The "people only post mean things about St Pauls Girls because they're jealous and they're daughters aren't smart enough to have got in" argument seems seriously flawed to me. Whilst you can't judge a school by a few of its students, there seem to more than a few posters here who think that this school which produces top academic results, could teach a little humility too.

OP - you sound a bit defensive and insecure re your choice of school, TBH

I totally agree.

Schools are unlikely to gain a reputation for arrogance in their pupils without some element of truth. If that were the downside of otherwise the best fit school for my DC I would just take even more special care as a parent to counteract any tendencies that way.

I just asked dd2 why she didn't want to go on a school trip. She said because she has already been on one this year & her friends have to choose one a year & she wants to fit in.

Which year had to retake their GCSEs Poisonwood? You often quote this & I'd love to know when it was.

The school is obviously an excellent one and is much liked by its pupils. OP and HollyGolightly3 are right to set the record straight on that.

However, the questions I raised above about the school's current leadership and about whether it has been chasing high scores in public exams to the detriment of its intellectual culture, are worth considering as well, even if they don't have an immediate impact on pupils.

I would add that, as also noted on another thread and reported in the Sunday Times, SPGS's fees have risen by 37.6% in the last 5 years, the biggest fees increase in the UK. Against the backdrop of stagnating salaries and tiny inflation elsewhere, this is a quite astonishing number. It raises questions not only about the management of the school but also about the kind of people who are going to be able to afford these fees, and to bear such inflation busting hikes, an increasingly exclusive segment of the super rich with access to personal and family wealth, I fear.

Wow. So anyone who doesn't like the school is a bitter wannabe?

I don't think you've done the school any favours with your rant.

There are lots of bright kids at other schools...and [clutches pearls] I even hear some people send their bright DC's to state schools.

My first point is that all London privately educated teens know exactly where the people they meet at parties go to school, it is naive to claim otherwise, which is what you seemed to be suggesting. ("they really don't even register what school anyone is at - ridiculous notion that they would remotely care") .Whether it is relevant to them surely depends on the individual. My wider point is that I have recently seen extremely entitled behaviour from pupils at SPS and SPGS which I don't see at my DC's school which is equally demanding to get into, but which has a rather different ethos. You claim my opinion is not valid because I'm not a parent at the school, but surely the fact that I regularly come into contact with former and current Paulinas and Paulines in my immediate family gives me the right to comment.

Not sure what the point is here? As you say, you are not a current parent. I am. The schools the DCs friends go to are an irrelevance to them.

Really? Wise up. Everyone knows where everyone goes. They may not "care" , but they know.

I wish more people shared experiences of their children's schools instead of commenting on schools they don't have children at.
yy!!
And FWIW we have DC at SPS who mix with DC of many schools at parties and other events, state and indie - they really don't even register what school anyone is at - ridiculous notion that they would remotely care.

That's not really true. I may not be a current parent, but I am married to an Old Pauline, the sister of another, and aunt to two Paulinas (one left, one current). I see a LOT of Paulinas and I'm not thrilled to say there is a great deal of entitled behaviour from all generations including DH who I adore. I do not notice it in the same way in DB (Westminster) or nephews (one Eton, one Westminster). As I've said before, clearly it's not ALL the girls, but there is a substantial minority. It's worth knowing this before you sign up your DDs. It may bother you, it may not, but at least forewarned is forearmed.

We have had 2 DDs at SPGS the younger of whom is in her last year. I fully endorse the comments of the first poster. It is a fantastic school - not only academically but the pastoral care and extra-curriculars are great. Our girls - who have quite different personalities and interests -have both been very happy there. If you are considering choosing it but are deterred by some of the comments here ignore them - they are basically urban myths.

theintrepidfox - this really really isn't a heated debate, at least by MN standards! Trust your own opinion and your DD's. Just because it isn't right for my DD doesn't mean it's wrong for yours. Reading these boards is interesting, but it shouldn't really sway you one way or the other. Having said that, if you're the sort of person who is bothered by other people's opinions of SPGS then you may not be thick skinned enough to be a parent there!

yes OP I also found your comments very useful and interesting, as my DD may be facing that decision too. Thanks!

OP: I am very grateful for you post and find it very helpful in this confusing and heated debate.

DD just had an interview at SPGS and loved everything about it since the open day; I have doubts mainly due to the many negative comments on this and other fora. Don't want DD to grow up arrogant / stressed / without time for extra-curricular activities. While she loves the (real? myth?) feel of individualism & quirkiness. She is at a local state primary and had no tutoring but is super-competitive (at the moment competitiveness is directed at becoming an actress).

Reading positive comments about SPGS from someone who actually knows the school does not sound defensive, it provides a helpful balance, thank you OP! While I will leave the final choice to DD (if she gets an offer), I am less inclined now to try and dissuade her if she chooses SPGS.

I stand by the comments about short shorts (and skimpy tops). Not at this time of year obviously, but I suggest OP waits till mid-summer and then returns either to agree or disagree. The Lycee does not have uniform either, but the kids dress very differently.

Comments above are mainly about behaviours outside school, with people posting their own experience. Those posts certainly reflect my DDs experience, and perhaps suggest why there is a general unease. Whether meant or not, there is a sort of "you are only worthwhile if you are academically achieving and you can only be academically achieving if you are at SPGS" sort of attitude. I tend to agree with Poison that at least some of this comes from (some) parents rather than the school. Certainly SPGS seems to have its share of parents who seem very involved in their DDs education.

DD knows girls who are very happy at SPGS, probably happier than they would be elsewhere, and some who are not. She personally knows three in her age group, and knows of another couple, who left before year 12.

Horses for courses really. It is a school that clearly delivers a very sound education. That said before accepting a place I would want to be sure that a child really wanted to go there, as it could be a tough place if they did not. I would be concerned about the widespread perception that (some) girls from SPGS can be arrogant and cliquey. And I would think hard about whether a child will do better within a selective intake or might feel more comfortable with a broader range. Particuarly if a child might find themselves in the bottom third, yet could be in a top set elsewhere.

As far as sour grapes go... I suspect if you factor out the greater selectivity of SPGS, results are no better than the other very good schools in West London. Good students will do well at any of these schools. Results published in league tables are other children's results.

As Poison alluded to, there is a bit of a West London reshuffle at sixth form, providing a second opportunity to apply. We know several girls who took the opportunity to move from one school to another, but only one who even applied to SPGS, despite the terrific results. External perceptions amongst girls in the peer group are not that great.

FWIW DD also claims to have reguarly helped her SPGS friends with their homework, at least as much as they may have helped her. She is not convinced that content was any more challenging than she received from her school.

No need to apologise, OP. Your post was a useful corrective to some recent remarks and quite rightly accentuated the positive about a school which is clearly exceptional.

However, your post did not address two issues which have been highlighted in recent threads: 1) the school's apparent obsession with public exam results at the expense of its intellectual traditions and reputation (as mentioned by Poisonwoodlife above) and 2) the profile and attitudes of its current High Mistress (eg the widely publicised "snowplough parents" comments, which prompted another SPGS parent to start a thread a couple of months ago).

As for defensiveness, don't worry, The Good Schools Guide's lengthy review of SPGS wins on that score. It may be relevant that the owner and editor of the Guide, Lord Lucas of Dingwall, is the brother of the Chairman of Governors of SPGS, the Hon Timothy Palmer, a connection which I don't believe is mentioned in the Guide.

So the OP has a child who passed a selection test to a school she is pleased with. Have a medal OP. Can we go back to what we were doing now?

I was actually one of the people who commented on the thread that rattled OPs cage that OP refers to. I think the overwhelming gist was exactly what she says in her last para. OP has picked on a few comments amongst many that were more balanced.

The only comment I made that was consistent with OPs reaction was highlighting the fact that SPGS was the only West London school to my knowledge that responded to GCSE deflation by making girls who did not get A retake. As a parent I would have been annoyed by that piling on of pressure / distraction just as they were moving on to focus on the greater challenge and interest of AS. Intellectually questionable as well. I would be interested in OP*s perspective?

Of course these schools are not a homogenous mass, but they do have a particular ethos and culture that DDs will know if they are comfortable with or not (providing that parents value and respect their judgement rather than valuing the school's name and place in the league tables). Even the most negative comments though did reflect some aspects of the SPGS ethos and culture, not the experience for all the pupils but some. Quite right that all the schools share a catchment of teenage South West London DDs who manifest a range of issues, from short shorts to mental illness, often rooted in parenting rather than school. My own DDs had entirely different experiences at the same school because of the prevalence of those, originating in the home with some truly heart breaking scandalous backstories, issues in the cohort in one year. I am sure that like Trip Advisor most parents will read all these comments with an appreciation of that fact (though I suspect that most parents of those lovely 11 year olds have no idea of what is to come or some of the extreme aspects of teenage culture) and the writer's subjectivity.

I would say though that these schools, by virtue of being top of league tables, are a target for those who indulge in competitive parenting, and whose DDs do have these issues to a greater extent. Self esteem issues are common for Girls who feel, rightly or wrongly, that parental love is conditional upon achieving, in entry to these schools, academic results, Oxbridge, being "popular", narrow targets for success. There is definitely a correlation between DDs having been targeted at certain schools and the extent to which some girls at those schools, lacking in self esteem, indulge in exclusive attention seeking cliquey behaviour, and worse manifest mental health problems. Anecdotes of eating disorders, wild behaviour, exclusive behaviour etc obviously do not reflect the whole school body but they do reflect an aspect of the culture (and I speak as a parent whose DDs are, of course, delightful and contemptuous of such behaviour).

When my DD moved to a less selective school she was amazed to find peers who respected difference and each other and celebrated each other's success. I had told her after comments by an Old Paulina, that she would only ever experience that alpha girl culture again if she found herself in a women's prison.

And she got, if anything better academic results...............