help - scottish mumsnetters - only 6 Nationals

yes, the school that was recommending or planning for 5 does have a catchment of a lot of disadvantaged/disengaged kids who may find 5 a struggle but in not allowing more able pupils to do at least 6 was never going to go down well.

Just because they are allowing up to 7 doesn't mean that's what all pupils should be doing but they should have the option to do the national recommended 6

5 maximum is a cop out though and can't be justified on time.

On class sizes and reducing choice/school day - that's where parent power comes in.

Get protesting to your LA and remember that for "technical/practical" subjects like the sciences, technical studies, hospitality, PE etc. they cannot have more than 20 per class due to health and safety. So if, say, your child has more than 20 in a class for one of the above you should kick up a fuss.

There is no way pupils can squash 8 subjects at Nat 5 into a school week if they are doing it in one year.
It's impossible and even 7 is a stretch even they drop the core RE or PE lessons.
There is just too much content in the Nat 5 courses and they are more like the old O Grades (I.e. more challenging)

Highland Council have dictated no more than 6. This is the same council who was advocating cutting the school day to save cash recently. I reckon subjects are going to be far more limited up here in future with bigger class sizes.

Some councils set the standards for all school in their area and some councils left it to individual schools to decide. One of my local schools decided to do 5. The headmistress mysteriously retired before implementation and was replaced and now they are doing up to 7 - strange eh?!?

If it's set by councils not schools -why are there 3 schools within same council borough (our area) all doing different amounts?

Have just read your post purple I guess some councils are more relaxed about it than others.

Our school was left to come up with its own plan for "senior phase".

The limits are set by your local council, not individual schools.

That's so unfair on any pupil capable of more.

Our school has a max limit of doing 5 nat 5's . When I asked why I was told because 5xa's will be more highly regarded than say 7 or 8 b's & c's!

Ha! We're in North East Fife!

My Dd's school is a large non-denominational one in West Fife, they have gone from 8 last year to 7 this year.

Has anyone seen any figures as to how many schools are actually doing 6, 7 or 8? That would be very interesting. In our area it was left up to each school to decide - the Local Authority didn't make a blanket decision. I have now seen a few comments on Mumsnet about schools that did 8 last year scaling down to 7.

DS did the Nat 5s last year - our education authority has implemented the CFE as it was intended, ie doing the Nat 5s over one year, and you would struggle to finish the courses if you tried to fit in more than 6. Schools that are doing 7 or 8 Nat 5s can only fit in all the work required if they are doing the courses over more than one year. He did well in all 6, and was able to drop 2 subjects and pick up a new subject for Higher this year. Although some parents were unhappy about being restricted to 6 subjects, I would rather they did 6 well than try 7 or 8 and struggle in some.

The Universities will be aware of the differences in the number of subjects taken across the country, and have issued statements to say that pupils taking fewer Nat 5s won't be disadvantaged.

There is just too much Nat 5 content to squash into one year if pupils take 7 or 8 subjects

This was borne out by my daughter's experience when she sat 8 Nat 5s last year. Her classes were mixed 4/5, they didn't start S4 until the June and they were all put through the Nat 4 outcomes in the early part of the year and then started to work on the Nat 5 content at (what seemed like) a very late stage. They had a 30 period week with 6 periods of non-National subjects, and 24 of their National subjects at only 3 per week. The Maths and English were the most difficult to pass, my daughter got an A for English, but only a high C for maths despite having a high B/low A for her prelim.

I think 6 is sufficient if the pupil knows what they want to do in S5/6. My DD is sitting 5 Highers with A predictions, one of them being a crash Higher. She isn't finding the work terribly difficult before the Nat 5 content prepared them well.

I actually think that Universities are expecting more from S6 pupils too - they want to know that pupils are still working profitably on Advanced Highers or crash Highers etc.

Yes, it's a time issue. We are supposed to cover the BGE until the end of S3 but if schools want to offer more than 6 Nat5s per pupil in S4 they have to start the Nat5 work in S3.

There is just too much Nat 5 content to squash into one year if pupils take 7 or 8 subjects.

Ours do 6 too. I was worried about it but from what I'm hearing, the old national 5s are much harder than Standard grade.
In the 80s when it was O Grade our school did 7, but maths was divided into Maths and Arithmetic which were classed as 2 subjects. So not dissimilar to the 6 subjects of today.
Unis are interested in Highers, in particular getting a good batch of grades in 5th year. but it seems that as long as English taken to National 5 , Higher isn't needed if you are planning a science based course. Check out the Uni websites for more details.

Agree re Uni's as, despite what the school tell you about being able to award Nat 4s at the end of 3rd year for subjects not taken forward to National 5 and this evidencing breadth and depth, I am sure they only want to know what highers they have and the grades.

In third year, ours are still doing as proper a BGE as they can provide given available teaching staff. They are still doing Maths, English, Science (all 3), Social (mixed between Geog, Hist & MS), French (and some spanish), Art, PE, Tech (again mixed), Music, RME and Home Ec (though they currently don't have a teacher so are getting extra Maths), Most schools move year at end May/beg June, our is end April/beg May so an extra 120 hours of teaching time or something which is enabling the atddition of an extra subject. I do despair about lack of choice and it must be even tougher with only 6 but I think it is a big ask of them to do more than that in the time available and still do themselves justice.

OP, I don't think that there is a way to argue with the school for 7 subjects. If they have set up their timetabling for 6 subjects plus the mandatory (PE etc) subjects, they won't be able to give him another subject without disrupting the teaching of the other 6. I fear you would have to move to a school that timetables for 7. I don't think the Unis will hold it against the pupils who only do 6 as it's going to be the majority of them!