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Original poster

Scotland: S3 Options time for National 5s

32 replies

myotherusernameisbetter · 03/01/2015 20:53

Just looking at the timetable we've been given for the Options programme and it says that parents attend the S3 senior Phase Options Interviews but at this point it doesn't say if that's during the day or evening. We've still to have an information evening in a couple of weeks time so I am sure we will find that out then but it would be handy to know earlier so I can try to arrange time of work if I need to - anyone had any experience? I realise I can phone and ask but feel that they will just have me badged as problem parent :o

Anyone else in the same boat with a child about to make their options who wants to share their hopes, fears and issues? :)

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Groovee · 17/01/2015 18:49

I'm not sure what will happen with Dd. She is in a school which was early presentation under standard grades so did them in S2/3 instead of S3/4.

She made her options at the start for S2, but will need to re goose this year.

Parents night in March. Last year's was very positive.

Ds is the new set doing the S1-3 course they are doing now. So it's all change and little info from the school

prettybird · 17/01/2015 15:28

Xiomara - I've had two different headteachers at two different schools tell me that (and the one primary feeds to a different secondary). They both expressed the same frustration. Indeed at the primary school, they would show the 3 intersecting circles but without any indication where your child was.

Now some schools may have chosen or are going to choose to ignore the edict...... Wink

Along the same lines, I know that some headteachers have already said that if Cordia get their way and stop allowing children to bring food into the school Shock, they are going to choose not to enforce it. Grin

XioMara · 17/01/2015 13:11

Apparently Glasgow City Council didn't agree with CfE and so refuses to allow the school to report against the 3 categories of CfE: developing, consolidating or secure and the level shock. Instead, we'll have to get that from the Parents Night next week.

I teach in GCC and this is untrue. Our reports always show developing, consolidating or secure. Not that that's any help to a parent anyway

Original poster
myotherusernameisbetter · 16/01/2015 16:19

Well I have the report and it's not quite as helpful as I'd hoped :)

He has been recommended for Nat 5 in everything except PE (nat 4) and Social Subjects (4 or 5) though the commentary says that he should be aiming for National 5 in whichever of the Social Subjects he decides to study next session. Given that he is not interested in studying any of them but isn't being given a choice not to on the form it's not great. He has to choose one of his worse performing subjects rather than others that he does enjoy, is intending using (we think) and has a greater chance of success in. Though I guess that may give a wee bit of leverage to see if there are any other options :)

He told me beforehand that the science report would give him an indication of which would be best to take and it's said any of them :)

A few subjects haven't added anything re levels or likely success in the narrative at all.

I'm a bit annoyed that his RME report, which was provided by his PST goes into detail about his lack of confidence etc given the fact that I waited a month to see him to talk about that very subject, he basically brushed me off as DS wasn't a girl and therefore he didn't have anything to suggest and said he'd follow up in two months and has never got back to me!!! This is the same person I then have to speak to about any issues with the options form - that might be a conversation where i need to bite my tongue for the greater good....

So, I've taken a copy of the options form, we'll get him to score out everything he definitely doesn't want to do - PE and RMPS for a start and then rate the others in order and see where we get to.

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Original poster
myotherusernameisbetter · 16/01/2015 14:56

Ours don't say anything about the CfE levels either but i don't know the reason and the interim reports only mark on Effort & Homework. i genuinely have very little idea of how they are doing academically which is a bit weird!

We are getting the final BGE report today which does have narrative - previous narratives have been marginally more useful than the tick box interim one :) It's all go this months as we have parents night next week too - all timetabled I presume so that we all have the best info available for the choices to be made.

They said last night that just because a tecaher recommends a 4 for example and you feel you want your child to do a 5. They wont go against what the parent requests but asked people to keep in mind that the teachers are the ones that have a better view of the childs work rate as opposed to how clever they are as brains aren't all that's required.

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prettybird · 16/01/2015 14:47

You're lucky you even get that amount of feedback. Our interim report (which we got in the first week back) just says 3 columns: Effort, Behaviour and Homework (he got an Excellent in everything Grin).

Apparently Glasgow City Council didn't agree with CfE and so refuses to allow the school to report against the 3 categories of CfE: developing, consolidating or secure and the level Shock. Instead, we'll have to get that from the Parents Night next week.

It's very frustrating for the schools (I know the primary schools are equally frustrated Sad)

We do get a "proper" report with narrative later in the year.

Original poster
myotherusernameisbetter · 16/01/2015 10:28

Meeting was vey useful, we have the options form but don't get the report until today. It is meant to have some indication from the teachers on the level that your child would be expected to go for - DH thought that might be a narrative, I did initially but looking at the slides, I think it may just be an extra collumn next to each subject that they simply put 3, 4 or 5 next to. I hope there is a narrative too.

Speaking to him briefly after looking at the options form he does have a bit better idea of what he would like to pick but the combination isn't possible :( They said at the meeting that there was no wriggle room although also said at one point that they would accommodate the needs of those on staged intervention as far as possible - DS1 is in on stage 1 so I could try to pull strings but I think we will definitely wait until we see the report and read through all the documentation.

He'd like to do, in addition to Maths and English, either Chemistry or Physics, Art, Computing Science, Graphic Communications and Engineering Science. Computing Science and Graph Comm are in the same collumn and in no others. One collumn only contains Social Subjects and Business management -he is not averse to doing one of those but it wouldn't be on his choice list. he'd also like to continue to do French but it's offered in 2 collumns, the same one as Art or the same one as Computing and Graph comm.

Oh well - it wont kill him. :) A quick look at the sheet says he could do Graph Comm as a higher without the Nat 5 if he got an A in Art - so, depending on his Art teachers view, he could park that for 6th year.

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prettybird · 13/01/2015 13:16

Ours is very open. AGM is notified to all parents via the Text messaging and go along to most parents' nights to have a presence (mainly serving coffee but it helps to raise our profile and remind people that we're there to represent the Parent Forum) and also to the P7 and S1 Information nights (where we try to encourage people to join in). We do put up the minutes and dates of meetings on the school website - but sometimes we're at the mercy of the school office staff doing it for us.

Original poster
myotherusernameisbetter · 13/01/2015 11:22

Parent Council! It's the secret f'king service! Intended for those and such as those and by private invitation only I think.

There are no contact details, you have to email the school and ask for it to be passed on - i did and got no response at all. They used to have a section on the school website that at tleast the dates and minutes of the meetings were on but that's gone and the evening they did hold the meeting coincides with something I need to go to for work.

They don't actually do anything as far as I can see. Our primary PC was great and did lots of events and fundraising and stuff for the school. I stopped going as the mother of the child who was bullying mine was on the committee and after a few encounters with her and her husband, I couldn't look at her wothout wanting to punch her face in, so for my own health and well being, I thought it better to avoid it :o

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prettybird · 13/01/2015 08:15

It's something you could suggest to the Parent Council. It's organised by our Parent Council in close conjunction with the member of senior management team responsible for "pupil destinations" (can't remember the correct term). This will be the 3rd year that it's been run.

We also only have 2 hours for our Parents' Evening (although from 7 to 9 so a bit more "working parent compatible"), which is something that has been raised by the PC - also how to stop some parents overrunning the 5 minutes and causing backlogs.

One of the advantages of the new online booking system is that the school will be able to see who HAS been seen and if there are any parents of kids about which there are concerns who need to be followed up separately.

Original poster
myotherusernameisbetter · 12/01/2015 23:49

that sounds great prettybird They don't organise anything like that. I think they tend to think that because there are a lot of affluent parents that they will sort it all out for their offspring and that they will all be trotting off to uni anyway - I sometimes think that the ordinary pupils get a bit of a raw deal- but hey ho!

We've been told that there will be a careers adviser available on parents night - it seems to be singular and I'm sure they will be able to see 150 sets of parents in 2 hours Hmm

Appointments are half 4 to half 6 so not the best either - i can be there but DH doesn't finish till half 4 (10 miles away) and isn't in the kind of job he can leave early and i'm sure some parents are in a worse position. i appreciate that teachers have lives too, but there isn't a great deal of thought in the whole process I don't think. Clearly this is an important parents night so presume that most parents will want appointments with a lot of the subjects, especially Maths and English. 5 minute appointments mean 12 in an hour so total of 24 - there are more than 24 in maths and English and some of the other teachers (Tech etc) will have more than one class per year as there are only 2 or 3 of them for that subject in the school.

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prettybird · 12/01/2015 23:35

Ds' school has a Careers' Evening prior to the kids having to make choices. It's for S2s (given that at his school they make their choices then), S4s, S5s and any S6s who still aren't sure what they want to do

In fact, it's taking place on Wednesday with representatives from 35 (I think) "potential occupations" (eg hairdressing, veterinary science, nursing, entrepreneurship, PR, journalism, optometry (actually, I think that's one we're missing this year Hmm) etc plus c20 institutions or bodies (Unis, colleges, Institute of Physics etc).

It's in 2 halves: for the first half of the time the younger group and their parents are in the Assembly Hall being given a talk about making their choices (with a bit of background about CfE and BGE) while the others are at the Careers "Fair" and then in the 2nd half the two groups swap.

Ds doesn't get to go this year as he is in S3.

Original poster
myotherusernameisbetter · 12/01/2015 22:04

My only reference point is when I did my own O grades which was in 1982 and chosen in 1980 so it's been a while :)

They are moving to a 33 period week at the same time so we've been told that there will be no opportunity to switch things about. the issue for me is that it's a small school by my experience (less than 800 pupils across 6 years when over 90% stay for the full 6 years). Even being one of the larger years (millenium babies :) ) they still only have about 150 pupils in their year so it means the variety they are able to choose isn't large. I remember being able to choose Geology, Russian, Chinese etc as well as the standard subjects but my school was huge!

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DWismyfavouriteaardvark · 12/01/2015 21:48

Yes of course sorry ... but no matter in all seriousness he still has an element of wriggle room until early August. The school will have parent's appointments where you can chat your concerns.

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this already but if he is desperate to be with his pals make sure he chooses the same subjects in the same columns... eg if he can do Chemistry in either Column 5 or 7 get him to take it where his friends are taking it... equally if he wants to keep out of someone's way, take it in a different column.

My youngest is currently in S4 and the only one of mine to do the 'new' system. The other two did Int 2s. Can't say I'm seeing huge changes but that could still be around the corner. Youngest is starting to think about which Highers but has prelim exams first.

Original poster
myotherusernameisbetter · 12/01/2015 21:30

DW - they are the potential S4s - our school has done (more or less) the proper BGE so although they move into S4 at the beginning of May rather than June like most schools, they really only have a year to do their 7 Nat 5s and then they are down to choosing highers.

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DWismyfavouriteaardvark · 12/01/2015 21:22

Officially they may have a week to choose but I'm sure your school will give you more time on the QT if you really, really struggle.

You can always put something down for now and amend later. Even if the school says not. They just want to discourage too many people from doing the same.

Someone else will be able to confirm this but it's likely the timetabling expert normally starts by sorting out the potential S5 & S6 kids first, then the S4s and then your crowd so the actual time when they put names down into boxes will be during April. S3 are way down the pecking order in the scheme of things.

There was a tiny amount of swapping in May and again in August for all of mine when timetables were out although it was Int 2s and not Nat 5s.

Original poster
myotherusernameisbetter · 12/01/2015 20:07

Thanks DW that's a good idea. I've done this myself before when i thought that he was interested in doing some sort of engineering/design but I really have no idea what he wants to do now and I think he is basically just wanting us to tell him what to do, which we aren't going to. I asked him what his friends were thinking about doing in the future and the answer was that most have no idea, one wants to be an Actuary and another a Magician...

I would imagine that he is more than capable of getting a decent degree but we have been wondering whether a good apprenticeship might suit him better. My DH has had many many changes of career and late return to study plus an OU degree etc so we definitely don't see choices made at 14 to be the be all and end all of his choices in life. He would be an extremely conscientious employee, is clever, diligent and compliant - I don't think he'd make a great boss as he struggles to speak to people and to exert his authority (but then he is only 14) so I'm thinking some specialist type role would be good for him.

walkingonsunshine00 I think we have a week and a half to choose but don't actually know. It suggests parents get the forms at the info night on Thursday and then we have parents night the following week and then Interviews the following Monday/Tuesday in order to finalise option choices.

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Walkingonsunshine00 · 10/01/2015 13:55

Dd gets form next Friday! They have a week to choose Blush

DWismyfavouriteaardvark · 10/01/2015 01:27

It's worth looking at a few university courses even this early and see what's required. I can't remember specifically but if you want to do Maths at either Glasgow or Edinburgh one of them was asking for a second science at Higher so just be aware. Also there are now some courses where physics and biology are favoured rather than physics and chemistry but our school actively discouraged physics and biology together in s5 .

It's also not unusual for someone who was dead set on engineering throughout school to announce they want to do Languages in s6 or move from languages to architecture. They just need some swivel room in their selections.

Mine are all beyond this stage but I'd get them to suggest very loosely the Highers they think they may want to take and then put a university prospectus in their hands. Spend 20 mins sitting with them going through the A-z of subjects and put a post it note at every possible degree they could sit and see if there is a diverse range of opportunity for them and not a narrow group.

You don't need to do anything beyond working out that they will have say 40 courses to choose from and not just ten. In my opinion it's best just to emphasise that you're not asking them to choose a career. Tell them that in say eight years time the career they go for might not even have been invented yet Grin

All tHis of course assumes they are thinking of university. They might not .

Original poster
myotherusernameisbetter · 07/01/2015 18:00

I've got friends with children in other schools - different council - and they've been using it for years and say it works perfectly well. The onus is then on the parents rather than the kids.

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prettybird · 07/01/2015 17:50

Did my on-line booking: got all 8 appointments (not bothering with RME which was the 9th option).

5 minute appointments (but you can't make 2 consecutive appointments as you need to get from one to the next), but due to availability, I'll be there from 7 until 8.45 (a couple of 15-20 minute gaps).

It's a trial system that hopefully afterwards will be rolled out more widely across Scotland.

Original poster
myotherusernameisbetter · 07/01/2015 16:53

Our parents evening is the 22nd too - but it will be the usual shambles - i bet we can only get appointments with teachers of subjects he doesn't want to take!

The change of the periods means that the school times need to change - hence me knowing - they did a consultation, asked for feedback, which I gave and then they went for their preferred choice anyway.

My problem with the whole column thing is that they were given two dummy opportunities to put in what they wanted - the first time I think they were just asked if there were no columns at all what would you choose. No1 son having already seen a copy of the previous years column options stuck to what he thought was possible, so basically the final form will have had none of his input taken into account - I could shake him sometimes!! :o

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prettybird · 07/01/2015 11:34

Don't know how many periods ds has you don't expect him to share a timetable do you?! Wink but we had no flexibility either - hence him doing Computing Science as his "extra" fun subject, whereas I think he would've liked to do Art I was surprised at how good his Art was when I saw his teacher at last year's Parents' Night

No point angsting until you actually see what is in the columns.

Our Parents' Evening is on the 22nd; we are trialling an On-Line Booking System when went live yesterday. I'm about to go and try it out. Grin

Original poster
myotherusernameisbetter · 07/01/2015 10:35

Hey, prettybird :) I remember our boys starting at the same time and it seems that we have got to this point so fast.

No1 son tells us nothing, he is a man of mystery! He may very well have an idea of how he is doing or what he wants to do but he is not sharing. I was up at school for a different reason and his PST shared the choices that he had made on their dummy run. In addition to English and Maths he chose Business Administration, French, Chemistry, computing Science and Modern Studies - we were expecting him to want: Physics, Chemistry, Computing science, Tech whatever it is and then have a dilemma about Art/Graph Comm.

We get the forms next Thursday and we've been told that there is no room to manoever out of the columns as they are additionally moving to a 33 period week and it makes it difficult to have any flexibility.

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prettybird · 07/01/2015 09:34

Ds chose his subjects last year in S2. - doing 8. Not sure if he gets to drop one at the end of this year, so not sure if he ends up doing 7 or 8 Nat 5s. He was very sensible about his choices and keeping is options open - but he's a good worker and very bright. He's already talking about which subjects he might do as "Crash" Highers in 6th Year.

The disadvantage of choosing in S2 meant that he had to drop "Expressive arts" in breach of BGE principles as they were in the same columns as Physics, Chemistry and PE - all subjects he was determined to do. His other subjects are English, French, Maths, Geography and Computing Science.

If he has to drop a subject, I suspect it would be Computing Science.