The most Socially Selective schools in England.

Having 'cultural capital' as mentioned by Smokepole, is crucial. I know a boy who has a 100% bursary for the independent school my DS attends. His family is not a typical low income family, however. His parents are university educated. They don't have money but what they do have is knowledge about educational opportunities. They knew about the bursary scheme. They were proactive in applying. The state primary school the boy attended had not promoted the scheme or helped at all in preparing him for the entrance exam.

That boy's case makes me think of all the equally talented children who do not have the advantage of parents with cultural capital.

Root

That is so right, frustrating.
My dd is H.ed and when we set out I scared her to death with a maths book I bought in error far beyond y4 which she was then. It must have been quite high a Schofield and Simm book. Her friend begged me to let her have it, I was only going to store it under never in a million years.
She brought it back the following week and asked for another. I could have wept. Needless to say I bought several more and slipped them into her school bag when she came round.

Struggling to get my head round the cow thing.

Maybe I've lived too long with a horse-obsessive and know too many of them. I can't imagine teenage cow mania.

I agree not all have the interest but those who really do opportunities are out there. As I said a I would have and there are many like me would happily put a child who can't afford a coat onto one if my horses. It's you that are putting the limits in place.

I just don't understand why you are not keen on equestrian sport in schools especially in rural areas. As I said would you be against a school team showing cows? Again not necessarily open to all. As I said above horses can teach you so much, the talented rider I mentioned above never owned one but was lucky enough to be given some incredibly talented horses to ride.

Put it this way- if we were living in Sussex now and dressage was on the sports curriculum and DD was picked for a team, I'd arrange something. A pony share, something. (We have never owned land or stabling etc ourselves) She gets plenty of riding time anyway and always has.

Not everyone has the means or the interest to do even that. Some DC don't even have an adequate school coat. I feel awful for the pony mad DC whose noses are pressed up against the glass and state schools should not be putting their own pupils in that position.

Littleducks

I know where you are coming from, we are a low income family and my dh income is around the same or was the same as the amount required for fsm, but of course he works. He has paid for everything our dc have had and at times its been difficult but we are not poverty stricken and know where our next meal is coming from.
If schools were to use the income scale rather than fsm entitlement then perhaps we would see a different picture.
I don't begrudge those entitled to fsm any assistance they get though.

morethanpotatoprints

I know someone whose 8 year old dd was an unbelievably talented, natural gymnast, with a perfect gymnast's physique - tiny, bendy and strong, and physically fearless. This child would be doing back flips in the play ground, armless cartwheels, all self taught. There was a gymnastics club, a really really good one, 75 yards away from this mother's home, and I told her that she should send her dd. Her response was that her dd preferred to watch tv after school than do any activity, and anyway, it was too difficult to organise. Again, not a bad mum, but poor, and totally overwhelmed with caring for her other 4 children, two of whom have quite significant special needs.

The girl is 16 now and really struggling academically. She's going to do hairdressing at college. I'm convinced she could have been a top-flight athlete. So, so frustrating....

Arsenic can I ask you how much you actually know about horses? Have you ever owned a horse? How many people do you know who own horses?

My DD rides, and as I say our village was horse central so know enough owners. I am not keen myself.

As I said upthread, I've known some pretty skint people own horses, often to the point of irresponsibility.

That still leaves vast swathes of DC, who if riding, dressage or whatever is on the school curriculum, will be left on the outside looking in, even more so if providing your own horse is required.

Plenty of parents who could forego the modest annual family holiday to buy a horse to keep in the garden shed, sensibly wouldn't. Still more don't have anything to sacrifice to do so.

Imagine the heartbreak of horsemad 12 year olds with no chance of joining in. Awful. Trainer envy times 1000.

I'm all for increased funding for Horse Rangers or what have you. Just not in favour of equestrian sports in schools.

I'd genuinely love that! We've got a horse box at our school, the tech department use it for transporting the Eco-racer. A competition which we've always lost, we get defeated by a variety of local comps!

DoctorDonna
Sussed it : we organise horse and cart to get kids to rural schools and then looking after the school transport will include everybody

Smoke

Once again you put it far better than me.

I will try and give an example.
My dds best friend is so clever, a really bright kid who can do her step brothers maths homework so quickly. He is yr8 and she is y6.
Her mum hasn't a clue what is available, can't see the point of encouraging more than the school can offer, not out of laziness but it doesn't cross her mind. None of the girls family have been to college or uni, they all left at 16. I have suggested some things hoping the mum would bite, but she is happy encouraging her dd to gain mothering skills by caring for her half sister.
She wants to be a hair dresser, nothing wrong with that at all but she has a real talent for numbers.
Some parents just can't see it and no matter how many opportunities I found for dds friend her mum wouldn't be interested.
She is just one of the many children out there who don't have parents who are able to support. They aren't bad parents and make sure homework is done and that dc behave in school, but just don't see anymore.

Arsenic can I ask you how much you actually know about horses? Have you ever owned a horse? How many people do you know who own horses?
Over my many years of horse ownership I've always been stunned by how poor many horse owners are, this of course causes many many horses to be kept in completely inappropriate conditions because it's possible to purchase a horse for peanuts, basically as I said above I couldn't even give mine away. Any body with any sense wouldn't take one on. Ok equestrianism is not open to all but it is out there for those from disadvantaged backgrounds who reallywant to do it. Im a completely talentless rider but can recognise atalented rider at 40 paces the most talented rider I ever had the privilege to train under was born and bred on one of London's most notorious council estates, an Afrocaribean, horses were definitely not on the radar of either his parents or teachers, but they were very much on his, he just wanted to ride so he mucked out, cleaned tack and begged for lessons at a well known London riding stables. He was quickly talent spotted and before his untimely death has been talent spotted by some of the UK's top riders/trainers. Horses are inside you, for those who love them and want to ride them they are like a drug that you cannot leave alone, and regardless of your background you will pursuer this desire when ever and where ever opportunities exist and those opportunities do exist.
Why smoke does it matter that Ebony is a charity?

Dapplegrey, they might get in, but I can't see that they do so in a way that is representative of the economic demographics of the country - there must be a disproportionate number of riders from well-off families.

The FSM thing is a bit of a rubbish measure of poverty, it is the accepted measure for schools though.

You have to apply for FSM which suggests some knowledge and a desire to get something. For some people the lunch is a motivation but for others (their child might not eat it due to a SN lots of carers in poverty, might not fit a religious/ethical requirement) is not worth applying for. The universal free meals for infants is only going to mean less people applying.

The working poor get excluded for to the gateway benefits required even though they may be in a tougher financial position once bills are paid.

I looked up the FSM numbers when we were riding a lot and there were only about 6% on FSMs which surprised me as at our local comprehensive it was closer to 35%. A science teacher at the rural school bemoaned the fact no one would pay for their dcs to go on field trips whereas our local school has trips to Nepal etc.

Talkin - nice to see we can agree on some things!
The transport issue makes a joke of the concept of parental choice!

Eastpoint, thank you for that. I'm happy to hear it. I do fear that her story is probably unusual and lucky! I hope to hear of more like her in the future though.

I grew up with girls who mucked out stables in return for riding lessons, so I know learning to ride is not that exclusive. But when you notch up to a more competitive or serious level you either need to have money in the family or have connections.

it is simply incorrect to assume that the members of that team are mega wealthy.

Who said that? The argument is about full inclusivity, not mega-wealth.

families regularly bought ponies which were incredibly cheap (under £1k) and then ran them in fields/diy livery. No fancy cars at the stables at all, mainly K-S reg

I understand that East. But families entitled to FSM often can't afford even bargain ponies (or cars of any reg).

dapple Oh, the great days of Harvey Smith flapping round the ring

DoctorDonna
I have no interest in engaging with grammar schools and am delighted that there are none near here

BUT
I agree with you utterly about the transport problem resulting in more choice for the well off.

Londoners seem to forget that the free bus fares for children
and bus passes working on every bus
is unique to that one city

the rest of the country has to put up with the fiasco of deregulation and competition and sky high fares

the latest hoo hah north of here is that Stagecoach have cut a bus route which was the ONLY way to get from certain villages to the 6th form college other than by car

and bus passes are linked to companies - so DDs one will not work on 3 of the 4 bus companies that run near here.

THAT is what makes schools socially selective

No I don't think it's rude I wasted spent 40 years of my life around horses. Many people are labouring under the impression that the horse world is only for the privileged few this could not be further from the truth. All over the country there are people propping up horses on shoestrings. If some schools have equestrian teams good luck to them, it is simply incorrect to assume that the members of that team are mega wealthy.

Outwiththecrowd - Charlotte Dujardin British gold medallist and one of the best dressage riders ever went to state school. Re. Showjumping the Smiths were state educated as were the Whitakers and Nick Skelton and many more.
So, in answer to your question, "do the hoi polloi [as you call them] get into British teams, the answer is yes.