How big is the step up to A levels really?

ds3 got a mix of Bs and Cs at gcse last summer (he was hoping for a couple of As but wasn't to be) and is now doing a BTEC extended diploma at college but not feeling stretched in the slightest. He doesn't regret not staying on at school and doing A levels as he couldn't find 4 subjects he was sufficiently interested in.

In your case I would encourage your dd to apply for A levels as well as putting in an application for a BTEC but one where there is the option to do an accompanying AS alongside it. I'm currently looking for a tutor for ds3 to do statistics AS and wish we had thought of it earlier.

Thats a bit sad noble as i went from a B gcse to a C alevel maths. Though i guess this is like 20yrs ago now. But i guess everyone starting at the same ability probably benefits the whole class.
There is no way to know beforehand that there are topics you just dont understand.
Lots of students back then got only b/c and went on to alevel, just about passed or got say 2 and carried on to get good degrees.

I think the jump is the amount of independent work required. I didn't really get it - I have A*/A at GCSE with very little work done and CCC at A Level. I just didn't have the work ethic. I have ended up a chartered accountant though, it didn't all go downhill!

At maths A-level at my school we only accept students with an A or A at GCSE. These students go on to get every grade from an A to a U or E at AS (and are not allowed to continue to Y13). It's hard to predict from GCSE grade alone who will succeed and who will bomb out, and although it's less likely than an A student will struggle at AS, it's not unheard of.

I think what people sometimes forget is that far fewer kids pass A levels than pass GCSEs.

So a kid who just scraped a GCSE C probably won't pass A level. That means they get a U - an E is an A level pass.

And a kids who did a bit better than that - a B or higher C - will probably get a D or an E.

They rarely if ever go from B/C at GCSE to B/C at A level. The kids getting B/C at A level are those who couldn't manage A*s at GCSE.

Obviously not true for everyone - some people really take off at A level, either because they just grow up the necessary amount or because they're naturally better at doing a few narrow subjects than lots of broader ones.

My DD has found the step up a bit of a challenge. She got mainly As with a couple of Bs and a C at GCSE. She's now doing 4 humanities A-levels and has found the analysis required to be quite difficult. For example, in her first AS History essay she received an E which really knocked her confidence. Three months in, and after a couple of one to ones with her teachers, she's consistently getting Bs, although she still struggles with the analysis needed. She regularly come home though saying that some of the brighter kids at GCSE are getting much lower grades than she would expect given their previous performance.

I would like to see the stats but i imagine there arent many students who only get a B at gcse and manage to lift that to an A. I think thats several things
Difficulty
Depth
Tougher marking
But say at gcse my B in history was like 50-60-70% depending on how everyone performed.
With alevel B was 70-80%, so you have to improve at something harder, in my subjects anyway.
If you work pretty hard you may get the same grade.
At least with mocks you can see the exact % they got so if they end up with 56% in say history, maybe scraping a B then it may be better to select something they are getting a solid B on.
What they might want to study at uni would also make a difference.
If her main interest was say the language though this could be of limited use as choices change as you get better or worse at subjects

Looking at syllabus/past papers may give an idea of the format so if say they prefer calculations/ analysis/ essays.
Im pretty sure i got an A at alevel spanish without getting all the grammar right (ser/estar para/por).
I found with effort i could do well in languages, whereas i felt i put more into the sciences and got less out.
Languages i think still require a logical mind.
For a language you could see what literature might be read, and say the AQA books are good if that is the board they will be doing.

TeenAndTween Does your DD understand the grammar of the MFL she is studying?

I ask this because if she is hard-working and relying on memorising her work for speaking and writing CAs she will find the jump to A Level very daunting. She will no longer be able to memorise for exams. At GCSE it is possible to get an A or even an A* without really understanding how the language works. The current GCSE specification is great for getting over the C boundary but does not guarantee a good understanding.

When I was teaching AL MFL I was always reluctant to take students with B but looked at individual cases. I would advise a student with a C to do something else. This was before the current specification.

Its difficult to comment as it will have changed so much in last 15yrs.
It used to be a huge difference.
My Bs at gcse sciences and maths became CDD at a level.
But once it went modular the exams were much easier i got a/bs on those.
So i guess it depends on what thry have done to the exams.
I think one girl got A at gcse chemistry and ungraded at alevel.
The sciences are like a whole new subject, you could be better in more depth or worse. If you pick a subject or 2 you shouldnt it will affect your performance on the others.
Pick what you find easiest/like most.
I ended up with sciences over MFL or latin i think because im awful at essays. Languages build up gradually, there is so much detail, equations in biology/chemistry that if your memory isnt good..
If they get all the same grade its going to be difficult to pick and easy to pick wrong.
dSis almost all A at gcse, switched like 3 times during first term. Ended up abc so maybe didnt pick wisely. At least starting out 4 reducing to 3 allows a more easy swap.
I would have been the only latin student (probably in a few yrs) and i think the teacher was genuinely sad/upset.
So pick what you enjoy, as i never did enjoy chem and its much harder to work hard.

Well, possibly STEP papers. It depends on the subject.

What Cambridge told us they were looking for was at least 90% in the 3 best and relevant AS papers (so not, say, art AS for a natural scientist, or geography for an engineer). Maths/FM/physics/chem would all go down well.

Sorry,
Oxford and Cambridge make offers based on 3 A levels at A2 and STEP papers (Cambridge) as I understand it

' gets him in a stew that he won't have enough points for Oxbridge'

where is he getting this information from? Oxford and Cambridge make offers based on 3 A levels

DS2 is finding the 6th form much easier .He is is doing maths,Fm, physics and chemistry and has got rid of all the subjects he wasn't interested in.
I don't think they are particularly work-heavy subjecys at all.tHe does all his homework at school and does practice papers/STEP papers and reading round the subject at home.But that is fun for him not work!He is getting over 95% on every test and the teachers are already saying they plan to predict A*s next year.I am not sure it is very wise of them to say that after just a term in?

Strawberry that's made me feel better. My ds (year 9) is the same, capable of As like his sister, but frankly, idle. There's hope yet!

My DS was always a laid back 'plodder' too. He did averagely well at GCSE, mainly B's with the odd A here and there.
He then decided he loved maths/physics and chose Maths, Further Maths, Physics and Computing for AS. To say I was doubtful would be an understatement! However, He absolutely loves all four courses and is so much more motivated with the curriculum and is thriving on the reliance to self study rather than being teacher led all the time. He achieved four A's at AS and is predicted A*/A for all four at A2.
So remember OP although it is a step up, that step just suits some people better and for me it is just lovely to see my DS so enthusiastic about his subjects. He is working hard but is not finding it overwhelming and actually seems to look forward to lessons now.

My DD is a "plodder" and got b's and c' s at gcse - she took humanitie subjects at A level and coped very well - now at uni! Nephew was an A* high flyer throughout gcse and A levels, although he found it difficult, has now deferred from uni as can't cope with the maths, so I'm not sure the brightest ones always have the advantage!

noblegiraffe - don't worry, we will keep an eye on him! We thought that was a lot too but he absolutely insisted as he is very focussed and is desperate to do Oxbridge.

We've just had a parents' evening and all his teachers seem to thnk he's doing fine, even at maths, although we asked whether he should drop further maths. However, any suggestion of dropping one subject at this stage gets him in a stew that he won't have enough points for Oxbridge. We keep saying it's not the be-all and end-all!

Also it seems that maths and further maths are sort of intertwined and it would be tricky to drop FM without changing groups and timetables. However, for his last two maths packs he got 86% and 100% so that cheered him up a bit.

He will drop chemistry after AS, although ironically he is really enjoying it at the moment. This might be more to do with a girl in the class that he fancies though!

Lazy, unorganised children will struggle. DD achieved all A* and As at GCSE with no or very little revision, shes predicted As at AS but I think she will only get Bs because shes so god damn lazy.

Any ideas on how to make a 17 year old work and get off her phone?

It's been a big jump for DS, who is doing maths, further maths, chemistry, physics and computer sciences

Bloody hell that's a lot. Please keep an eye on him as students taking that many subjects can really struggle with workload. It's possible that he is getting Bs and Cs at the moment because he has taken on too much and should seriously consider dropping a subject. A student I teach who had a similar workload underperformed at AS because of it (Bs instead of As) and is now having to resit some AS modules in Y13 having dropped to a reasonable number of A-levels to try to get his grades up for Uni.

both of my dcs have done a levels.it is a massive step up.
if you get an a or a* at gcse you will be fine, a b will probably be ok.
generally, the children we have known who get c grade gcses end up dropping out/failing the exams.

Think it does depend on the subject, the school, the teacher, the number in the group, etc, but massively depends on the child.

My 2 nieces : Eldest sailed through her GCSEs, all As and A*s without doing much work at all. Ended with all Cs at A-level

Younger niece: Worked really hard for her GCSEs - got a good mix from A-C, majority Bs. Then was able to give up all the subjects she didn't like, and found a new one that she absolutely loved, and blossomed in the 6th form. Ended up with all As

It's been a big jump for DS, who is doing maths, further maths, chemistry, physics and computer sciences. The workload is phenomenal. He got 9 A*s and 3 As at GCSE and is currently panicking about Maths about which he has never had any confidence. For the first time he is getting some Bs and Cs, which I think is fine for this stage, and probably quite good for him.

His mate, whose GCSE grades were nowhere near as good, is doing arts subjects, has considerably less homework and is sailing along doing really well.

DS1 found it a relief to be able to forget all the subjects he'd hated. I suppose in retrospect he must have been capable of sailing through A-levels, given the sheer amount of time he spent agonising about a girl other things when he should have been working...

DS2 (mix of A* to B at GCSE) is looking very strained after just one term of 6th, and the phrase 'essay crisis' crops up rather a lot at the moment.