Should we care that 50% of state schools didn't produce any medicine applicants in 3 years?

I thought medicine applicants were expected to have A-levels in all 3 sciences. If you haven't already done all 3 at GCSE then you're on a back footing before you even start.

I agree Talkin, my point was that this statistic gives a very superficial overview about where pupils come from.

My DC just didn't believe it, they claim their fellow students on their courses are mainly former state secondary pupils.

Summerends
You are missing the point.
If the poor kids are not at school they are out seeking work or signing on.
If they turn down a JobCentre job "to volunteer at a Medical centre"
they are likely to lose their benefits
or get sent to stack shelves in Tesco on workfare

being able to take time and money to go volunteering on the off chance is not affordable to over half the population

having the spare cash to take a train to London and buy lunch there is way beyond the means of low income families the ones whose whole take home family income is less than a set of private school fees

Any volunteering or charity work experience that shows experience with health problems and social deprivation is a positive for prospective medical student. Possibly teenagers in a rural setting requiring transport might find access to such experience harder than somebody living in an inner city.

Sadly nothing new
When I was at school (mediocre comprehensive in the north) and choosing my GCSEs it wasn't even possible to select all 3 sciences as they were only available in 2 slots in the timetable, I suspect it never crossed their minds when putting the timetable together that someone might want to study medicine, dentistry or veterinary at Uni and need all 3.

"My understanding is that the 'professions' are largely becoming 'hereditary"

Medicine has always run in families, in Britain at least, hasn't it?

People with doctors in their immediate families find it much easier to arrange work experience and relevant enrichment activities, and generally sound well clued up in the demands of a medical career because it's been part of their household for as long as they can remember. And they speak the lingo.

Also, given the number of state school, the number of children educated within the state system and the number of very good and equally demanding career choices out there, it doesn't seem all that surprising that 50% of state schools had no medicine applicants. Medicine is not the only career choice for DC who are exceptional at the sciences.

legallady
Do you have a link for your headline stat BTW
is it 11-16 schools?
or 16-18 6th forms ?

because if its the latter its an utterly bilge statistic
as colleges like Sparsholt are not aiming to get kids to Med School

We weren't talking about vets were we?

atoughyear
For a Vet degree, you have to have clocked up over 300 hours of work experience before starting the degree
you are also expected to do around 300 hours a year, every year during the degree : which precludes a holiday job to supplement the fees

For a med student : the time and travel to get to an unpaid placement that may lead to nothing is beyond the means of many families.

agggghast DD is at Peter Symonds ..... several of the kids there have come from Pompey private schools .... it cuts both ways

I'm not sure if this has been said already, but 50% of state schools not producing any medical applicants (as per your title), so not the same as 50% of medical students come from private/grammar schools (as per your OP).

Thy wouldn't be working full time though. A few hours a week is all it takes. Not sure where you are but there are loads of clinics and care homes within walking distance where I am.
I went to a comp and went into a profession akin to medicine and got no fucking help and guidance. It depresses me that nothing has bloody changed for some kids.

Well where I work, Hampshire, I would say our top 5 each year are creamed off by the local indies. In Portsmouth for example the LEA closed all Sixth Forms about 10 years ago. Where I live, IW, schools have 6th forms and so my children found it fairly straight forward to be accepted on a course to read Medicine.

I think the issue is that statistics for this sort of thing are not really clear.

I agree about work experience though, it is essential.

Atoughyear
A lot of schools don't tell pupils they should be doing voluntary work
But is that because it would be frankly insulting to parents on below median incomes to expect to pay for their kids to work full time for no money, let alone travelling to city centres and the like

UNPAID WORK EXPERIENCE AND INTERNSHIPS ARE THE REAL PROBLEM

Aggghast
Many state schools don't have sixth forms and often the most able then get scholarships to indies/ grammars for years 12/13.
Do you have evidence for that?

Because round here the flow is definitely the other way - among DDs friends at her state college are kids who have arrived from Eton, Winchester, St Swithuns, PHS, PGS, KES, HCS and many, many others

I think it's more than that Talkin A lot of schools don't tell pupils they should be doing voluntary work.

Link failed.www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/fears-future-over-shocking-levels-8242280

Surely its a lot more to do with
unpaid work experience
that Medicine and other professional courses now demand
only the rich can do unpaid work experience

so its not the fault of the schools, its the fault of the courses
and employers
excluding those of average means from getting places

What about statistics [[http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/fears-future-over-shocking-levels-8242280]]

I agree that figures are probably being twisted into a scare story.
DD went to the local comp (only option available) which wasn't very good. Do you think we hung around for sixth form? Of course not! We left and went instead to a different comp, the sort that does send students to Oxbridge / med school / RG.
You would only stay at a rubbish sixth form if you were constrained by, for example, transport costs.

I think this is a case of statistics rather than the truth. Many state schools don't have sixth forms and often the most able then get scholarships to indies/ grammars for years 12/13. The others go from college rather than secondary school, I would imagine this skews the data. All three of my DC went to read Medicine from a very bog standard comp along with 5/6 of their peers. When DD2 went, there were 6 others going plus 7 off to Oxford. None of my DC feel in the minority and all are/ have been very happy at university.
In my experience aspirations are more often limited by parents than teachers. The financial burden of university can seem very worrisome.

mumsneedwine Yes the best and most motivated people from non-privileged backgrounds (like BluTacked and you daughter) can make it to medical school. But shouldn't we (for the good of the general population if nothing else) be aspiring to more equality of opportunity than that?

And while state schools do have to teach all 3 sciences, not all offer the possibility of doing 3 separate science GCSEs (FWIW I went to a decidedly not good state school, and now visit schools regularly as part of my job.)