The Politics of Grammar Schools

Pressure is an interesting issue. Our GS has a reputation of being very high pressured. Many parents rule it out because they believe this. There are clearly some kids at the school who do feel pressured. Most do not. I believed that DS would feel pressured, if he got in, especially by his poor English, even though his maths was better than both the girls and I didn't expect him to have issues with VR (his problems are with writing, not reading or verbal dexterity). So when he informed me there was no way he wanted to go to that school, I was fine with it. There is really only one style of teaching at the GS, I know from experience that the comp DS attends adopts a variety of approaches (unfortunately his top maths set this year is following the same style of robust teaching as at the GS and he hates it despite being good at maths). I'm very aware that despite the fact that I have, by any standards, a good job, we are rather less well off than the families of my DDs friends, and while we aren't a perfect fit for the comp either I think I'm slightly more comfortable in that social milieu - but still, the comp wouldn't be the right school for either of my DDs and it is for my DS.

I know one person whose DC didn't get in to the GS a few years ago (she was surprised, I wasn't) who didn't let DC2 even try when the time came (that DC would have walked in) because the first DC was really traumatized by the experience (by the parent's reaction mainly, he wouldn't speak to us for months and now takes every opportunity to tell us how much 'better' than our kids his DC1 is). So there's that sort of issue to take account of too - some people have complex reasons for their choices.

Hakluyt. Re who has actively chosen modern? Potentially me. Given the confidence to do so because 4 of my friends have. Will let my daughter have the final say. Friends daughter is super confident in her maths ability as she is in top set. More motivated than when she was 'middle/top at primary. Borderline pass but has seen the pressure her brother is under at the grammar. Other friend's son passed but chose a school with better sports facilities. But I now appreciate how lucky we clearly are here.

Interestingly in Bucks (another fully selective county) it seems that only 10% of DC don't sit the 11+. Anyone know why the figures are so different?

Bonsoir yes I did say presumably some of them are actively choosing a sec mod.

Marni23 - lots of Kent parents either know their DC haven't got a hope in hell of passing the Kent test and/or are actively choosing private secondary education.

Hak I actively chose a comp for DS. It's not a sec mod, because we don't have sec mods. But it's not a true comp either because (a) no sixth form (there are comps we could have chosen, further away but less far than the grammar, that'd have 6th forms), and (b) where I live the effect of private schools is more distorting than the effect of the GS.

I can see the attractions of a lottery system but it would only work with free school transport and mandatory uniform costs. And also, a mandatory curriculum so that musical or sporty or other specialism kids wouldn't be disadvantaged by their allocation. Which would be resource intensive (because you couldn't make non sporty kids sporty, or non musical kids musical). I don't have a problem with resource intensive education but the government might. You'd also have to have more rigorous streaming than now so that the really fast kids (the sort that thrive in a SS atmosphere for example) werent held back, and so that kids with issues that mean huge schools are a problem were not disadvantaged. And so on. And you'd have to ban private schools, if non orivate kids are being forced to go to a school where there's no choice. Basically it would cost a fortune. But it could work if done properly and it would be fairer.

My comprehensive educated child has just started her first job - tutoring at a local prep school. She's in year 10 (& v good with kids and explaining things to them). This does make me chuckle.

Not sure how many of them are DC Mumsnetters but according to some figures I've just looked at around 40% of children in the county don't sit the Kent test. So presumably some of their parents are actively choosing a secondary modern?

Have chosen or will choose a non-grammar school in spite of their children being able to pass the test

EvilTwins
Teacherwith2kids

[waits for the list of mumsnetters who actively chose a secondary modern school for their child]

Hakylut. Maybe a better way to phrase it would be to say 'most appropriate' school for their child. As previously stated plenty of mums here have chosen the 'best' school for each of their children. Some have chosen the secondary moderns or comprehensive in the next county for one child and the grammar for another. One child took the entrance exams to keep his options open but opted for the secondary mod because of its ethos. The grammar isn't 'best' for everyone, however intelligent. It is a highly pressured environment. It wouldn't have suited me! But it is the most appropriate place for some. Similarly for others the 'best' school is one or other of the moderns.

link, sorry

'Personally I would introduce a lottery system'

Oh right, we're violently agreeing then!

Hak your link doesn't work for me so I can't read it.

Do the contributors specify whether they bought into catchment/are able to drive or pay for their DC to travel to the school of their choice?

I am well aware that many parents are very happy with the comps their DC attend. That wasn't really my point...

"I have read many of these threads and still wait for an answer to the question how comprehensive supporters will overcome selection via house prices."

Personally I would introduce a lottery system.

I can't speak for anyone else. And I agree with you that some of the posts in this thread indicate different views to my own. But my key thing is - I want an appropriate education for my kids. For two of them, that's their grammar school. No question. For one of them, the grammar would have been inappropriate for him and he is much much better off where he is. I don't think either school is 'better' per se, I think they offer some different things (and some things that are the same).

"I do wonder how many people would still be in favour of the comprehensive system if they couldn't buy their way into catchment or choose to drive them past their nearest failing school to get to the 'better' school further away."

[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2235415-Unofficial-poll-Is-your-child-at-a-comprehensive-school-Are-you-happy-with-it contributes to this thread seem to be]]

Okay, I see what you mean now, though I didn't read it like that. If you see my post a bit further down I describe the type of learning at my dd's superselective - many parents don't want that kind of education for their child. Eviltwins who lives in the same county as me and a very good teacher says she won't send her children to a grammar school, so she obviously rates the quality of education at the non-grammars more highly. So isn't it about the style of teaching rather than the quality?

I have read many of these threads and still wait for an answer to the question how comprehensive supporters will overcome selection via house prices.

"Hakluyt, would you mind telling me please which post(s) said that some children don't deserve a great education?"

There are many posts which say they want a grammar school education for their child, because the poster considers that that is the best possible education available in the state system, and that is what their child deserves. In wholly selective areas, this means that they consider 75% of children not deserving of the best possible education.

Exactly Marni

Hakluyt, would you mind telling me please which post(s) said that some children don't deserve a great education?

I think the only way to ensure a truly comprehensive intake at every school (in areas where there is a choice) is to introduce admission by lottery.

I do wonder how many people would still be in favour of the comprehensive system if they couldn't buy their way into catchment or choose to drive them past their nearest failing school to get to the 'better' school further away.

Notsure-with respect, I don't think you can have read the thread...........