Headmistress attacks parents in national press

mn it is an charitable organisation started by people from ethic minorities and disadvantaged backgrounds who have succeeded in their careers. The mentors come from all sorts of backgrounds but have in common that they can provide a role model to those who follow. I used to work with some of the founders.

.... there .... (not going to mentor anyone on spelling)

PWL

That mentoring role sounds very interesting. Is their a national website or is it a Local Authority lead thing?

Poison absolutely agree with everything you say. I was just posting it as a question. As you say, mentoring at a personal level can make a huge difference and more should be available.
Good of you to be involved in this.

MN164 I did say it didn't address snowploughing, and it probably doesn't really address affluent neglect. IME these parents think they are wonderfully involved parents, their DDs best friends in fact, that or actually intimidated by them, saves having to behave like a grown up parent.

However this does give a school something to clobber them with.....

makemelaugh I am involved with a mentoring organisation, believe me London's schools are packed with bright pupils who are willing to put in the work but are held back by poverty, peer pressure and a lack of parental aspiration. Just giving them mentors who can open their eyes to the possibilities , and exposing them via workshops with business and universities to what most private school pupils take for granted has amazing results. When they get to Oxbridge or RG unis they get firsts. And it isn't about a shortage of suitable pupils to help, it is about a shortage of mentors. And some of them are indeed carers, or face some of the difficulties you mention but they are also determined. Impossible to generalise like that about the circumstances of all those the schools could target. Universities are really keen to facilitate and recruit these pupils, why not schools. As I have already pointed out some are going into primaries to deliver similar eye opening mentoring and G&T sessions and find those most deserving of the opportunity. You say that some prefer to be on the street, well how much better to be in an environment where they can be bright and be children. You already have pupils from affluent backgrounds there for whom school is a refuge where they can be happy, and who get no real support, practical or emotional, from home.

I am also involved in a school that helps street children in Asia, takes them from working on rubbish tips and supports their families to catch up and get them into mainstream education. Again many more they can help than they have resources so they have to filter on the ones they feel have the families who are most likely to stick with it . Better to make a difference one child at a time than to give up in the face of The enormity of what these children face. .

Someone mentioned bursaries for the really "underprivileged" in this thread.

There are children from very low income homes whose families have been struck by death, physical or mental disability, alcoholism... Many help out with younger siblings and sometimes family businesses such as shops etc. Some feel safer in the streets than at home. However bright they may be, everything in their lives seems to be working against school attendance, intellectual nourishment and space to discover interests or talents. They're just too busy coping and so are their parents.

DS attends a London private school and I honestly doubt that a child from a background similar to what I describe above would be able to cope with the demands and please I don't mean intellectual. I mean amount of homework, resources, parents taking and picking up from Saturday matches, late rehearsals for music and drama, strict attendance...etc. Doesn't the nature of what is required and expected in these schools exclude a large percentage of bright children with no support whatsoever from their families? You just have to read the above quote from LEHS and what is expected from parents to understand what I mean. It's not fair, but I think that's the honest reality.

PWL

I like the spirit of the LEH clause you found (good digging BTW). However, the parents that "clear the way" for their children and don't "allow them to fail" whilst having little regard for others would be able to comply with that clause very easily wouldn't they? In fact, their "over-compliance" with the clause is the problem identified isn't it?

This is interesting, can't find anything similar on any of the other schools websites. LEH are telling parents upfront on the website that they will have to sign a parental contract that is a little more than the terms and conditions we signed in the past. Not quite no snowploughing but Clause 7c pretty much says no neglect www.lehs.org.uk/parental-contract/66.html

"In order to fulfill our obligations, we need your co-operation, including in particular by: fulfilling your own obligations under these terms and conditions; encouraging your daughter in her studies, and giving appropriate support at home; keeping the School informed of matters which affect your daughter; maintaining a courteous and constructive relationship with School staff; providing cooperation and assistance to the School to ensure (so far as reasonable and in appropriate and/or necessary circumstances) that your child can participate and benefit from the School's provision of education to your child in accordance with the terms of this agreement, including where the School wishes to provide such education remotely; and attending meetings and otherwise keeping in touch with the School where your daughter's interests so require."

And this clause is interesting too

"The main categories of misconduct which may result in expulsion or removal are:
(i) Supply/possession/use of certain drugs and solvents or their paraphernalia, or substances intended to resemble them, and alcohol,
(ii) Theft, blackmail, threatened or actual physical violence, possession or use of unauthorised weapons, intimidation, racism and bullying,
(iii) Misconduct of a sexual nature; supply and possession of pornography,
(iv) Vandalism, computer hacking, other misuse of ICT.
(v) Cheating in school or public examinations or coursework.
(vi) Truancy.
(vii) Persistent attitudes or behaviour inconsistent with the School's aims and ethos,
(viii) Other serious misconduct towards a member of the School community or which brings the School into disrepute on or off School premises"

No going off and moaning at conferences, the rules of engagement are right here

Is this done by all the private schools for new parents?

Although I think that the closer all schools get to the fees that would previously have been thought of as "bring your own pony" levels, the more able students you exclude.

I think a lot of the state school pupils who go to other London day schools are more likely to be like Basildon - they have looked at school fees, made a calculated decision to send their child to an outstanding primary and have decided that the value added of sending their very able daughter to St Paul's over another school isn't high enough to justify the cost.

Of course all these schools offer bursaries, but I don't think 'ex state primary' necessarily means lacking in funds in anything other than relative terms.

I don't think she's bothered about the affluence, just the snowploughing and neglect.

Well that figure of 2 from a state primary in a year is considerably worse than when I asked the bursar. As I recall, then she was saying 20% which was at about half the level of NLCS, G&L and LEH. Bute however was taking 40%+ of the places at that point.......

And if there are only 2 from state primaries, where are the bursaries going?

I am beginning to share OPs indignation. Bit much to go and moan about the parent body to other Heads when it is an unusually (even for economically selective private schools) affluent parent body of her own making.........

Dd's head suggested SPGS for her but we were put off by three things - location (we're south London, dd would have had a longish journey with a couple of changes and I wanted her to have more local friends), the lack of uniform (not a problem in itself but potentially difficult when the vast majority of your peers are better off than you) and above all, the eye-watering cost. We can afford fees - dd goes to a fantastic independent school which is much easier to get to - but are not in the income bracket which means we can happily kiss goodbye to several thousand pounds a year. Like many other bright girls I'm sure dd will do very well wherever she is and SPGS just didn't have enough pros to counter the cons

SPGS ran a summer school this year for the first time for children at state schools & the head of yr 7 makes a big effort to encourage pupils from the state sector. I am aware of girls from state schools in both my DDs years, when they started we weren't told where their classmates had been before. The school has strong ties with Hammersmith Academy which is sponsored by the Mercers and pupils from the VIth form come to the Friday Lectures. They also get help with university interviews. There is still a lawn behind the science block. My dds mainly wear their sports kit to school as they are active everyday and it saves time. Although a creative subject isn't compulsory at SPGS unlike at the boys' school I think most of the girls did art, music or drama (no dt as the art is very free, like everything else at the school). There are lots of publications, M2, The Foodie, MFL magazines, classics magazines & a science magazine each year; the pupils can run a magazine on whatever they want. They go out and get sponsorship from wherever they can, another great experience, rather than it being funded by the school/parents (but they use the school's computers etc). My DDs are busy with plays, music, sport, volunteering etc but still go to parties & shopping. They weren't tutored to get in, haven't been tutored since they got there & have never come top in an exam. Each was taught by CF when they were in yr7 & I haven't been in to complain about anything.

Most families with DC at state primaries considering going private for secondary are cost sensitive. If their DD is SPGS caliber, they look at the other options such as NLCS, CLSG, Habs, etc. which are also very, very good and cost significantly less.

Also, if the fees are going to be a squeeze, you might worry about your DD socially at SPGS. Would you have the money "to keep up?" The lack of uniform is a detail, but you might worry about the cost of dressing your DD so that she "fits in," etc.

I am sure SPGS is an excellent school and an intellectually inspiring place, but it also has an air of being very well heeled which may be off putting to families with DDs in state primaries.

To be honest there appears so few from state primaries at SPGS- only 2 I think from Dd's year - school list was issued in Y7 which names the individual and the school previously attended. It is very transparent. 1/4 bute.
They are trying hard to fund full bursaries.
Possibly the issue lies with State schools not considering putting pupils forward or suggesting the possibility for parents to consider.
I dont think its about the kids being too far behind. For instance the 3 langauge options on entry are assigned so that you dont have any ability in the language selected.
about 1/4 overseas students coming from totally different curriculums.
The first year is more of a leveller to get everyone to the same point.
Bright kids from state schools would have no problem bridging the gap in the first year.

Money for bursaries, just to be clear, not money for the school itself, IYSWIM.

I went to SPGS from a state primary (and was not tutored). It was fine. I was behind but I would say I had caught up and in some cases overtaken by the end of the first year or so. I had plenty of friends there from all kinds of backgrounds. About 10% of the school is currently there with financial assistance (I know this because they write to me a lot asking for money).

PWL

That's good insight to the exam process from your DD. Thanks.

My point was slightly different (perhaps as to make no odds). If a state school kid could pass the SPGS 11+ then they are good enough to "catch up". If the exam is "harder" that other 11+ exams then this is doubly true IMO.

I don't have any experience on the girls school side of things yet (year 4 DD), but do on the boys side. Take state school NC delivered by a "good" Ofsted primary, add 10 hours with a tutor on exam technique and get offered places from both schools applied for. The school he chose (lucky him to have a choice to make!) say that their experience is that state school primary students do "better" in the long run, overtaking their prep-schooled counterparts by year 8/9. All at the fine margins of course as they are all bright, but their words not mine.

It's a shame that the 11+ system favours those that have been prep'd, tutored or simply supported at school and at home in a way that state primaries neither have the responsibility or desire to (probably not the resources either). State schools have enough to do as it is without helping private schools "cream off the top".

MN164 it is my DDs opinion that St Paul's was the only exam in which going ahead of the NC, and developing more advanced skills eg in literary critisism and Scientific method and knowledge would give you an advantage. Just having practised what was asked of her that she had not encountered before in the course of NC Literacy and Science would have been of help (and she is a very able Mathematician / Scientist) . In all the other school entrance exams there were questions that challenged you but more as tests of lateral thinking, applying logic, and familar concepts in unfamilar ways, like the ones at the end of the G&L sample papers (which are always good fun to work out over the course of a day or two )

PoisonWoodLife

"Certainly when I challenged the bursar on why they had so few pupils from state schools the answer was that they were too behind (presumably those with targeted prep at eg Bute) and the school could not bring them up to speed to keep up with the pace in Year 7."

The notion that state school pupils will not cope doesn't square for me. They might need a bit of attention in year 7 and some catch up on, say French and Latin, but the "material" is no different from prep-schooled pupils. If they can reach the levels required to pass the 11+, they prove themselves more than capable.

Colet Court have a approach to this. They have a deferred 11+ test for Year 5 State School boys. At 11 (year 7) they take in about 20 and target 10 from state schools.

It's a step in the right direction, but of course it overlooks that the school takes in more at 7+, 8+ and that the local state schools are not exactly FSM, ESL heavy (Fulham, Chelsea etc).

It's the diamonds in the rough that the state system might not serve well that need to be encouraged. That's a real challenge as home life and parenting are often correlated making that pupil's journey to the best state or private school harder. At least private schools have the resources and reach to find those diamonds.

As for the middle classes being priced out of private schools, let's be clear - nobody is going to weep for us are they and, frankly rightly so. That said, and with vested interests at heart - I think the new local economy of London should be taken into account. There are plenty of middle classes that need partial bursaries that won't get them because of inflated house prices (net asset test) - house prices that have risen not because of the middle class affluence but because of the weight of money from the new elite and overseas wealth.

That's why I think schools that have it in their power to admit pupils how they choose should start doing so.

CF at SPGS could get backing from the Worshipful Company of Mercers to fulfil the ancient mission of the school and dole out much bigger bursaries that they do. After all, they just committed to £100m going in to the boys school.

Lots of parents would feel left out by "choosing" families and professions, but that is frankly tough luck. Find another school where an 11+ and chequebook are all that matters - there are plenty to choose from in West London.

[soz - got a bit rant there]

Rootandbranch Yes, absolutely right, currently very few who are on bursaries are "underprivileged" but it is they who are surely the "most deserving".

There are nice cheap schools in Paris . DSS2 in Terminale S costs us about €3,000 per year in fees (before trips and extras and his UCAS grade predictions are 18.5/20 mean, 19/20 maths and 20/20 English. The equivalent of at least 4A*...

rootandbranch I agree it isn't common but where schools do go out into primaries they do find very bright pupils from underprivileged backgrounds. At one 11+ entrance exam I showed a bewildered looking single father where his other child could play, he had been widowed by the war in Somalia. His son had taken part in a G&T session run by the pupils of the school, his teacher had encouraged him to apply for a scholarship / bursary and had persuaded the school to wave the registration and had paid their fares herself. His son was given that chance. That is my point about schools who include in their ethos any sort of commitment to helping bright pupils regardless of background, as most do, needing to be proactive to use their pots of money wherever it will make the biggest difference to the pupil's lives, not their results and websites. And that is through getting out into the community.

It is also about making their Year 7 accessible to any pupil completing the Year 6 curriculum. Every private school teacher I have ever spoken to has said that whilst state school (and International School) pupils may be less secure in the "stuff" they know when they enter year 7 they soon catch up because they have the enthusiasm and thinking and learning skills. All pupils may be able but each pupil has something different to offer from their experiences and strengths, and maybe SPGS is missing something there, not just in terms of a more diverse parent body..........

locomotor Well that appears to be true for my DD at another RG uni but I only recently completed a Masters at another London uni, believe me whatever planning they do, it does not work. And as my DD was just complaining, us mature students are buggers for punishment, requesting harder assignments and actually wanting to work and learn "because you do not have a life and make it harder for those of us who would quite like a life" Even without a life I still found myself burning the all-nighter oil. In fact she is a bit of a control organisational freak but the workload on her Science course is frightening, and if she is struggling plenty struggle more.