6th form - EPQs

Rabbit I think you are me! DD isn't worried about this. I am. She is heavily committed re her music, in a "it is rather more than a hobby/pastime" (but not her career choice either- argh!) .If school said dop and EPQ she would but it would probably displace sleep time!

Theas - there is some anecdotal evidence that it's a useful thing for medics to have. I cannot see how it's a useful thing for musicians to have. But then to be fair neither is geography A level so...DD1 is not worried about this at all, I must stress. It's me. And I should prob just leave her to it. After all she has found 'the time' to become an expert on zombies in addition to her already honed exoert areas so I guess if she smashes the zombies on the head (yes. I write that) she'll have 'the time'. And the rest of us might sleep better.

Hak - I don't agree with you about producing music in the style of being necessarily soul destroying though - Axis of Awesome seem to do alright! she wouldn't do that though. She might do an EPQ inspired by AofA but that would be more likely to take the central premise of one of their songs as a starting point for some comparative crit, not writing a 4 chord song.

Hak - I agree with you (about the point being doing something different). The problem is - as I see it - that Dd1 doesn't have 'the time'. Her 'the time' is spent doing music which, unlike for her musical friends, isn't a hobby or a pastime interchangeable with take your pick. However it's me that is concerned, not her and not the school, so I'm probably underestimating her and worrying about nothing.

My dd and her friends all had to choose something completely uncollected to any of their subjects- and they had to run it past the Head first. Certainly not minimum effort for maximum reward!

Do they have to do 5000 words in any of the A levels?

Hakluyt that what they do all the time! Just like " write your own ending to Romeo and Juliet in the style of Shakespeare " sort of tasks in English.

I'm actually not sure I see the benefit of EPQ at all in the new climate hence " let's make it minimum effort for max reward" strategy.

Looks like she'll be expected to do 4 full mostly Linear A levels which is a heck of a lot of work and presumably will set her " above" the 3 A levels and EPQ kids ? Trouble is we just don't know. It will help some kids eg heading for medicine - research how chemotherapy really affects people by actually talking to them then compare with what the literature says- ace footing for an interview. Think you will want to study a niche area that you school doesn't do - EPQ will help you decide.

For most kids there is a package of source analysis / extended essay built into at least one of their courses. What does EPQ add?

Maybe I'm just old and cynical!

And (sorry) producing a piece of music in the style of somebody else sounds soul destroying!

I do see it a bit differently- but only from the point of view of watching dd and her friends a one expertise at all really.

I can't really see the benefit in doing an EPQ in a subject you know a lot about already. It seems to me that the whole point is taking something new (obviously something your're interested in) and researching and thinking about and producing something on that. Yes, choosing something where you're already got a lot of knowledge will allow you to tick the EPQ box, but you won't really have learned any new skills.....seems a bit of a waste of time, really. It's only worth doing if it will benefit you personally and teach you something new. Otherwise, use the time for something else-IMHO

I teach / co ordinate the EPQ and it would be perfectly possible to do a performance for AQA. The performance would be the artefact with the 1,000 word report.

Typically, she could research a composer say, and study their style and then to produce / compose her own piece of music in that style.

To ensure that it is not too close to her A level music, she could not do it on anything that is covered in her music A level.

Performance related EPQ.? Interesting proposition....I shall watch this space, not sure how what's been mentioned so far isn't the same as A2 performance in extended form though ?

Dd1 did EPQ. She enjoyed it. She thinks it was worthwhile as it sort of started her into her niche history path. It conveyed no direct benefit for uni application . DS didn't do it in the end. No negative effect either.

DD2 may be expected to do one. Or if she takes 4 subjects to A2 maybe they'll drop it? General studies and critical thinking have gone already.

If you do an EPQ I suggest you work smart in an area of interest/ knowledge you already have and that will also contribute to background A level knowledge. Eg ive suggested dd might do a take on Tudor church music - she doesn't realise but she has a wide repertoire knowledge anyway and it's got politics/ history running though it all. The other possibility was to do something on pre ww1 Russia to complement the Russia post 1917 history.

On the whole I would rather she didn't bother thoughM

The info we are given says it can't be something that is a part of your A2 studies. And obviously performing is an element of music A level. so - I don't know.Anyway, it's up to her and she will probably end up writing a dissertation on 'the zombie through history' or similar. Actually, if she DID do that while I doubt she would score highly I'd at least not be worried that she would have to do lots of extraneous work since she could write a 50k essay on that right now. In her sleep.

Rabbit Maybe I'm mistaken, but cannot see anything specific about performance on the AQA EPQ syllabus here.

circular DD1's school does the AQA bacc.

She really wants to do the third grade 8. And she is completely ready (even the dreaded scales) - could have done it this term but we made the teachers thrash it out between them which one would be this term which next and singing drew the xmas straw. As you know, it's flute which is very useful to have in addition to the first study both for practical reasons and for income generating ones. I agree with you that she shouldn't take any more piano grades but there is merit in trying to improve it still. again, from a practical POV. She is determined to do the diploma and to be honest, it gives her something concrete to work for, she likes having goals. I just don't see that the EPQ on top of that (and given that she has to do 4 A2s (in addition to the A2 she is doing in May)) will add anything more. If they do let her do a music-y one it will be less bad. But her current plan is o do something linking literature and history and while I TOTALLY see why she thinks it would be fab, I just worry about the amount of work at a crucial time.

I don't think DD1 is particularly more academic than your DD1 to be honest. She just luckily didn't choose to do French (cos she was pants at it - another reason why your DD1 is prob more academic than she is!).

We did suggest to DD1 that she could knock the singing lessons on the head once she has grade 8 but that went down like a cup of cold sick.

If it is optional at DSs school you need to look at how relevant it is to the unis DS wants to go to. I think they are worth half the points of an A Level so can be handy if the uni's offer is based on the no of points needed as opposed to grades.

Also as already mentioned, unis like Southampton love EPQs (haven't come across any others that feel the same)

Rabbit Just wondering about the different exam boards for EPQ.

Edexcel states that it allows a performance or an artefact. I think this is the one DD1s school does (although she's not doing it).

AQA seems a bit different, more a presentation type.

Rabbit If the music grades are adding to your DDs workload, is there any point taking any more after this term? I was under the impression that the Conservatoires were not interested in exams taken, just want to see a minimum of grade 8 distinction standard of performance at audition.
The grade 8 theory is popular with the Unis, so probably more worth doing if going fir UCAS too. Heard from some admissions that it could be a dealbreaker if A level music grade drops.
The EPQ, if musical, would be a great interview discussion point. Far more valuable than the 4th A2 IMO.

Admittedly my DD is not as academic as yours, but is just about holding it together in yr13 with 3A2 and 3 instruments, only one of which is grade 8. Hoping she may manage Grade 8 theory in the spring, but still under discussion. Although she thrives on being busy, is very disorganised.

I think maybe it's her school that discourages performers doing performance based EPQs. Or maybe she has got the wrong end of the stick. If only she could write a gigantic thing about GoT or The Walking Dead then she would be in clover - sadly I don't think that will be deemed acceptable! She's leaning towards doing something about the history of her instrument. Which might be acceptable to all concerned. I was hoping she could do something about TV/Film comp song, because we know someone who does that, but sadly it's sort of on the syllabus for GCSE so it's sort of out of bounds .

Rabbit I certainly would n't be able to comment on her relative chances to other potential students. 'Slim' becauseyou have underlined how difficult it is. All I was saying is not to worry too much as I have seen other students cope fine with workload of music exams, concerts auditions and academics. They have like her been doing similar multitasking throughout their school career to get to that position. The EPQ might give her a different performance angle.

Compulsory at DS's sixth form too.

I have already been that parent and asked if there is a get-out for the slightly less organised child. Apparently not.

Summerends I don't think DD1's chances of getting into a conservatoire are any slimmer than anyone else's. Logically they will be better than some and worse than others - it all depends on the competition since there are so few places but I've no reason to think she will be weaker than other candidates. But it's a lot of work, she will be doing her diploma in the summer plus Grade 8 on her third study and maybe grade 6 on her 4th in the autumn term, and grade 8 theory too probably, and with 4 A2s too, it will be a massive workload. I personally think she could do without the EPQ (or the 4th A2) but she won't countenance not doing either of them.

My DS did an EPQ and like Hakluyt's DD he found it very useful when he started writing essays at university. As to whether it helped him get an offer I am not sure. He applied with his grades and was accepted on a course when he had a grade lower in one subject than their normal offer. So I think that maybe having an EPQ helped.

My dd did an EPQ and really enjoyed it. No idea whether it made any difference to her university offers, BUT it was the first time she had written a long essay which she had to research for completely on her own. She says it was a huge help when she started writing university essays and she is very glad she did it for that reason alone.

DS1 is in Y13 & doing one. He's dropped a 4th A2 & doing the EPQ instead.
It seems an awful lot of work but he wants to do law so is doing something related to the justice system.
He took his LNAT this week which I think has rather scared him.
Still not got his PS & UCAS application is which is giving me sleepless nights.

I think it can help distinguish you from other candidates and could give you something to talk about at interview but not essential. DD didn't do it as she was doing a lot of work experience for vetmed as well as a paid job and was already stretched.