Can someone explain the logic behind target grades pls?

In my experience most students do not stop working when they hit their target and in fact most are very motivated by beating their target. Teachers are very clear that targets are a guideline and should not be a ceiling. It is a very usefu guideline, if the targets are based on the child and are reasonable.

DC's schools do not have target grades and will not tell the kids what their predicted grades are. They are encouraged to aim to get all the questions right.

I really don't see the point even in saying to a top student "your target grade is an A*" - what's that saying to them, "no point putting any more effort in once you're getting 80% on papers, getting 1 question wrong in 5 is as good as you can possibly expect of yourself"?

Obviously that's not going to apply to a kid who is going to struggle to get a C, but I still think they'd be better off being told to do their best, not "aim for a C".

Your pay is not solely dependent on the targets though , surely it is part of a wider picture,

I wish they could to me too... My entire year 9 and 10 have been predicted A or A*... all based on KS2 maths, English stats, postcode and contents of parental shopping...ARGH. My pay is also dependent on them getting those FFT results.

With my students who had A targets and indeed with all students I would negotiate with them a stepped a stepped target which meant that they would not be expected to get an A in term one. So perhaps in term one we would be aiming for a high B, stepping to a secure A by Easter and then a low A* by the summer term. In the autumn of year 11 we would look at last year's performance and again negotiate targets for each term.

Just tell him it's bollocks and to do his best.

Because it is really. We lick our fingers, stick them in the air and try to guess which way the wind is blowing.

pique
Have any of your kids done GCSEs?

@TP, I see two separate tales of a teen intimidated and stressed by something at school. I'm not convinced that the political background for one scenario make it significantly different to the other.

my school has been through two Ofsteds and got good and outstanding despite the kids having no idea what their FFTs are. The teachers know what they are but we set our own targets for the kids.

If I had to share FFTs with my class then I'd have to tell at least one kids that I've given a target of A* to that his FFT target is a C. That's hardly going to raise aspirations.

I'd be tempted to query it with Mike Cladingbowl as to whether it's official Ofsted policy, they seem to be keen to dispel Ofsted myths at the moment.

It just illustrates that OFSTED know what judgement they are going to reach before they go into a school. They clearly are asking a " failing" school to do things that will make it fail even more and harm it's pupils. OFSTED praised us for adjusting targets .

Apparently we will 'raise aspirations' by sharing their (unachievable) targets.

Noble we have to share them with pupils. OFSTED and HMI both demanded it (in special measures).

We know the data we are handling, we know it's rubbish. Try telling that to a kid who will never get a C at gcse because he can't read. Thanks ofsted.

Add message | Report | Message poster PenelopePitstops Sun 16-Nov-14 19:55:27
Tbh they are usually generated from FFT data and based on ks2 results. Schools literally cannot change them without very good reason. It's a nightmare for teachers as well, personally I agree that unachievable targets are meaningless. BUT in this ofsted data obsessed world where each child should conform to a computer model, this is what happens.

But schools do not need to pass those targets on to students, it is deeply unprofessional to give a target to a student that you know is wrong simply because the computer says yes. OFSTED will judge against that target, although having been a senior manager thorough an OFSTED they were sataisfied by our target changes as long as some were moved up and some down.

Ah, OK.

pique
the other thread is about a child who feels intimidated to speak up in class

I told my DD not to feel pressured but the nastiness of politicians

Schools can't change FFT targets, but they do not have to share them with the pupils. I would go further and say that any school that routinely gives unaltered FFT targets to students are run by complete idiots with no understanding of the data they are handling and they should be sent for retraining.

@bigTillyMint, this may puzzle you but I agree.

That was TP's solution for the DD who apparently feels intimidated as the only girl in a AS Further Maths class (see other thread).

Tbh they are usually generated from FFT data and based on ks2 results. Schools literally cannot change them without very good reason. It's a nightmare for teachers as well, personally I agree that unachievable targets are meaningless. BUT in this ofsted data obsessed world where each child should conform to a computer model, this is what happens.

She still aimed for top grades,
but look at the shifts in boundaries that happened this year
tens of thousands of English scripts sent back for re mark

set targets over which you have control
the A/ A* boundary was NOT in DDs control because of political posturing

so the fact that some of her results were just below that boundary was fine by me and by her

That does rather suggest a problem with fear of failure than a problem with high target grades.

I totally accept that unachievable target grades can put undue pressure on young people, and one of my students in previous years had a breakdown because of this. SLT were stupidly giving unaltered computer generated average targets to students as individual targets - we don't do that any more.

Pique, have you any idea how fragile some teens are? And just "telling" someone to deal with it won't magically make them able to deal with it.

I wasn't like that as a teen, but that may have been down to the fact that we didn't have any target grades.

Well done to your DD, Talkin.

DD managed to make sure that the highest grade predictions her teachers put on her Sixth Form applications are A's for the same reasons - she did not want to feel or be seen as a failure for getting an A instead of an A* She is bright, but not a complete genius.

"she started getting really stressed that ONLY A's would be seen as failure. ... So I put pressure to get it altered to half and half"

Interesting.

Why didn't you just tell her to deal with it?

noblegiraffe
A* grade targets depend on the child ...

when DD was given solid A* targets she started getting really stressed that ONLY A's would be seen as failure.
So I put pressure to get it altered to half and half - if nothing else to protect her against Gove and political grade boundary alterations

it took re-marks to get the two B's up to A's - ie to get the real marks not the politicised ones
and she does not feel a failure because A/A* is just dandy to take to A levels - especially as her Certificate includes a paper she took but that did not count towards the grade .