auditions for conservatoires

By "set piece", I meant like the equivalent of set book in English, so yes, one of the pieces on the syllabus for the IB. Her teacher is now working with her individually on that, in addition to the in-class work. DD is the only one in the class who can actually read music (she has G8 piano and G5 theory from outside school).

She is working on the performance element out of school.

For the composition part of A-levels, do most students do this with the teacher from schoo? Or do people get guidance/supervison from a compositition tutor, as they do for performance?

I feel so out of my depth with this music stuff.

I'm sure it can work well for many people. I know a few professional (one insanely successful) musicians who did something else at uni. Re the IB/Alevel - I don't know about IB but the A level includes performance and composition. Not quite sure what you mean about set piece - do you mean for an audition? Or is it one of the pieces on the syllabus for the IB? I don't know anyone who gets help from their school for a CUKAS audition...or the performance element of a ucas one. Many unis don't even require A level, grade 8 theory is an acceptable alternative since some schools don't offer A level music...

Thank you for the Imperial/RCM reference. I googled that and found lots of interesting information.

DD's music teacher wants her to apply next year to conservatories for classical singing. DH is eager to get her on to an academic degree.

Thank you Rabbit for your comments. The perspective of someone who is doing CUKAS with UCAS as a backup is exactly what I am looking for.

What I understand from your last post is that music doesn't work very well as a joint degree with other academic subjects. So a degree such as "music and literature" (Cardiff) or "combinined arts" (Durham) or "liberal arts with music pathway" (Bristol) would not be good, because there would not be enough time to spend on music. I think that is a general complaint about joint degrees, but it may be more pronounced if music is one of the subjects, compared with, say, "History and Politics".

I feel she may be behind the A-level students because she is doing IB, where the course is a mixture of academic, performance and composition. So possibly there is less adademic content than the A-level? Also, she did not study music as an academic subject at 16+, whereas practically all of the A-level students will have taken GCSE music. Finally, the IB music has admitted some students to the class that cannot read music, so the group is less advanced that an A-level group ought to be.

DD is now having additional, private lessons, where she can work on the set piece at a faster pace, so that should allow her to catch up a bit.

DD1 knows someone who is doing the Imperial/RCM thing. He seems to like it. Hard work though. There are musicians devoting ALL their time to music. So you're immediately at a disadvantage if you're doubling up.

Random - why do you think your DD is behind other A level students?

When DD1 applies next year she will apply through both CUKAS and UCAS. The UCAS places will be her fallback positions. She will be applying for BMus wherever possible. She was thinking about Cambridge but probably won't apply there in the end. She will also apply to GSMD and maybe an overseas conservatoire (but probably not). She looked at one US place briefly because of the person they have there but ultimately the location is so very dire she decided not (and let's face it, he could be gone before she even arrived).

Music is an academic degree. Just as academic as English. Interestingly, my DD1's standout subject other than music is also English. She won't contemplate even joint honours.

Moominmammacat I epressed myself badly. Music is - certainly at some universities - an academic degree.

I meant that for DD, who wants to be a performer, an academic degree in music is possibly a poor compromise between doing something specialised in performance and doing an academic degree in a subject in which she excells academically.

I am coming to realise that the way music is taught at her school, she is probably quite far behind what A-level students have typically done, so if she starts a BA in music in September, her academic background would be weaker than the other students.

Also, I am just learning the difference between - at Edinburgh - the MA in Music and the BMus. I see now that the BMus carries a bursary for lessons on two instruments - which suggests that BMus students are expected to continue lessons. Whereas the MA in music does not, but I didn't know that when picking W300 instead of W302. So I am wondering whether she has applied for the course that is best suited to her.

Any thoughts on how someone who likes peformance should be considering between BA in music and BMus - as alternatives to CUKAS, which this thread is about - would be welcome. Is anyone who is applying to CUKAS as a first choice also applying for music through UKAS, and if so, which places are you and your DCs considering?

When I was at uni (10 yrs or so ago), the joint courses in London were Kings and RAM and City and GSMD.

Why on earth would you say music isn't an academic degree RandomFriend?

Just had a quick check, cannot see anything about no. of places for joint course on either website, I remember being told by someone that applied a couple of years ago. Believe if unsuccessful, application automatically considered for the MusB at Manchester.

Only 8 places? That is a very tiny number.

The only other joint Uni and Conservatoire degree we have come across is the Manchester and Royal Northern joint music course. think that gives two degrees, BMus and BA. Only have about 8 places, straight A students.

I do wonder why there are n't more joint initiatives between university degrees and a performance or other musical qualification at the music colleges. Musicians who are also academic are often very good at time management in school so would probably make the most of the chance of continuing formal music study with an other subject degree.

One of the teachers at my DS's school did English first (Oxbridge) then went to RCM.

Scarily expensive at the time of auditions - but I have never known DS to be happier. It's a long course and who knows if he will ever pay back that loan but when someone is so sure of what they want to do with their life I am sure he has made the right decision.

summerends that would be great for someone considering physics.

DD is looking at music, which is a poor compromise between an academic degree and something in performance.

I am realising that what she excels in academically is English. So next year she could reapply for English; and apply for CUKAS courses.

For the bright scientist and musically able there is a joint Imperial physics degree and performance for one instrument at the RCM. Not sure whether there is anything else similar elsewhere.

DD is only doing UCAS this year as I thought doing CUKAS as well would involve too many days away from school for auditions. Also, I was not aware of the 1st October deadline until late September, which was too late.

I want her to focus on academic work this year, and if she likes she can apply for CUKAS courses next year. I am finding this thread very useful in thinking about whether she should accept a second-choice UCAS course or apply again next year.

I believe Chichester Uni do some very performance heavy degrees, some including instrument or vocal tuition. Appear to be the lower end of the academic scale. No idea what instruments they accept, not asked as DD wasn't interested.

Conservatoire degrees definitely fine for music teaching grounding. I believe the head of music at DDs school has one.

Instrumental teaching, yes. More so than at a uni. Classroom teaching no, you need a PGCE for that. And that would be the case if you were doing a uni music degree too. Obviously though you could do a BEd with music if the places offering that also accepted your instrument.

Do the conservatoires prepare to teach as well as perform or is it just performance.
My dh did performance and has done some teaching over the past 25 years but he isn't a qualified teacher nor does he have a degree as such.
They were brought in the year after he left and dumbed down.
It used to be considered as Graduate Diploma, then Degree I'm pretty sure this was common throughout.
Anyway, it doesn't really change much but I think its good to weigh up what sort of career you want and work towards that.
I think there would be more options from a uni degree, but you can't beat a conservatoire if you are a performer.

Rabbit The Uni degrees where she is applying are all 3 years, unless you add an optional year abroad.

I had the impression that a Conservatoire degree would be just as well regarded if she wanted to pursue a music career. But if she changed her mind, a Uni degree would be worth more.
She definitely doesn't want a career in performing, most likely to teach in some shape or form.

Guess we just need to see what the next year brings...

Most uni music degrees are 4 years too.

A degree from the conservatoires your DD is applying to would be just as well regarded as a music degree from any of the universities, circular. :)